Why are they Still Dying?

[JoetheDictator]

Why are they dying? This is a question I have asked myself, my pastor, my US Rep, my senators, my friends in Iraq, my friends who came back scarred from Iraq, my profs, and my family and I thought I'd ask you because I cannot and have not found an answer it that I want to hear. Tell me please, anyone, that we have not sent Why are we sending soldiers to die in a war that is essentially a get rich quick scheme gone horribly wrong. Tell me logically that their deaths have not been in vain and that they died for some great humanitarian cause.

Tell me that the almost 4000 dead American troops and 30,000 wounded suffered for a cause. I am bitter, and I get this way every Memorial Day. I mean why did they die? What for. The following is a list

Saddam wanted (or had WMDS): Okay so where did they go? If he truly had WMDs then why haven't we found them? Why didn't he use them? Where did they go? If the terrorists were given them then why haven't they used them against us or Israel?

Saddam was a threat to his neighbors: Really? I thought we controlled 2/3 of his airspace, his army melted away within hours of our invasion; our decade of bombardment combined with embargo and sanctions destroyed of his military what Gulf War I did not

Humanitarian Reasons: In 1989 Iraq was the most westernized state (excluding Israel) in the region. They were talking in some circles of democratization, they wanted to learn English, they were sending students here to study. Then they invaded Kuwait and they closed up their society. In his thirty five someodd years of dictatorship Saddam and his baathists killed at most 1 million. Since March, 2003 some half a million have died and scores of millions more have been crippled, scarred, wounded, or injured for life. It was actually safer to not question Saddam then it has for them to live in freedom. So its not humanitarian. I mean if it is then certainly we have given them a cure that is worse than the disease.

He didn't like Israel and he didn't like us: Name one state on the Arabian peninsula except Israel that supports Israel (same with us)

Al Qaeda Links: Really. Then why have we not found one pre 9/11 tie in to Al Qaeda and Saddam. Not one shred of credible evidence for this exists. Also, an altruism about dictators is they do not tend to invite destabilizing threats like terrorist organizations to operate from their country as dictators seek to preserve the status quo (read: we're in charge, we like it, lets keep it that way forever) while terrorists tend to appeal to dissenters who would desire to topple them.

So tell me why are we there? Why? Why are they dying? I mean did we not accomplish the mission? Aren't the Iraqis capable of policing themselves? We gave them a republic, why don't they seem to want it? Why are our troops dying and getting wounded? Why is Iraq far more similar to a genocide than a humanitarian mission?

[Green Lantern]

Why are they dying? This is a question I have asked myself, my pastor, my US Rep, my senators, my friends in Iraq, my friends who came back scarred from Iraq, my profs, and my family and I thought I'd ask you because I cannot and have not found an answer it that I want to hear. Tell me please, anyone, that we have not sent Why are we sending soldiers to die in a war that is essentially a get rich quick scheme gone horribly wrong. Tell me logically that their deaths have not been in vain and that they died for some great humanitarian cause.

Tell me that the almost 4000 dead American troops and 30,000 wounded suffered for a cause. I am bitter, and I get this way every Memorial Day. I mean why did they die? What for. The following is a list

Saddam wanted (or had WMDS): Okay so where did they go? If he truly had WMDs then why haven't we found them? Why didn't he use them? Where did they go? If the terrorists were given them then why haven't they used them against us or Israel?

Saddam was a threat to his neighbors: Really? I thought we controlled 2/3 of his airspace, his army melted away within hours of our invasion; our decade of bombardment combined with embargo and sanctions destroyed of his military what Gulf War I did not

Humanitarian Reasons: In 1989 Iraq was the most westernized state (excluding Israel) in the region. They were talking in some circles of democratization, they wanted to learn English, they were sending students here to study. Then they invaded Kuwait and they closed up their society. In his thirty five someodd years of dictatorship Saddam and his baathists killed at most 1 million. Since March, 2003 some half a million have died and scores of millions more have been crippled, scarred, wounded, or injured for life. It was actually safer to not question Saddam then it has for them to live in freedom. So its not humanitarian. I mean if it is then certainly we have given them a cure that is worse than the disease.

He didn't like Israel and he didn't like us: Name one state on the Arabian peninsula except Israel that supports Israel (same with us)

Al Qaeda Links: Really. Then why have we not found one pre 9/11 tie in to Al Qaeda and Saddam. Not one shred of credible evidence for this exists. Also, an altruism about dictators is they do not tend to invite destabilizing threats like terrorist organizations to operate from their country as dictators seek to preserve the status quo (read: we're in charge, we like it, lets keep it that way forever) while terrorists tend to appeal to dissenters who would desire to topple them.

So tell me why are we there? Why? Why are they dying? I mean did we not accomplish the mission? Aren't the Iraqis capable of policing themselves? We gave them a republic, why don't they seem to want it? Why are our troops dying and getting wounded? Why is Iraq far more similar to a genocide than a humanitarian mission?

You've got maybe six different kinds of Why in here.

[JoetheDictator]

You've got maybe six different kinds of Why in here.

those are suggestions, but they don't answer why because when you look at these excuses for this horrible war you see that they make no sense.

[Green Lantern]

those are suggestions, but they don't answer why because when you look at these excuses for this horrible war you see that they make no sense.

What I mean is which one of the why's did you want answered? You are all over the place.

[JoetheDictator]

What I mean is which one of the why's did you want answered? You are all over the place.

None, what I don't want to hear is what I know to be true. I do not want to hear that they died so Bush, Haliburton, Big Oil, etc.... could rake in profits enormous enough to border on the surreal. I am hoping to God that maybe I missed something. That our troops did not perish for naught. So that when Gibby II is asking questions I won't have to say our government treats its troops-who should be honored above all others- like its personal play things.

[Green Lantern]

None, what I don't want to hear is what I know to be true. I do not want to hear that they died so Bush, Haliburton, Big Oil, etc.... could rake in profits enormous enough to border on the surreal. I am hoping to God that maybe I missed something. That our troops did not perish for naught. So that when Gibby II is asking questions I won't have to say our government treats its troops-who should be honored above all others- like its personal play things.

So what did you make the thread title a question for if you did not want any of the questions answered?

[JoetheDictator]

So what did you make the thread title a question for if you did not want any of the questions answered?

Its a badly phrased rhetorical question on my part. I want the HUAHheads to engage in critical thinking and understand that there is no truth in the Bushite excuses and justifications for this senseless and wasteful war.

[Green Lantern]

Gotcha. Good luck.

[FamousAmos]

for the sake of our troops, how can we rationalize this war?

It's taken me a while, but I am just as dumbfounded as to why this is happening and why it went so terribly wrong.

My concern lies with the troops: If the American public continues to criticize the war and the war effort by saying we shouldn't be there, what kind of effect does that have on our troops overseas? I'm not saying that is wrong to criticize the Iraq War, just the manner in which some people are doing it. Is it necessary to be so public and vocal about it? Because eventually those anti-war headlines make it to our soldiers.

Is there an overall goal for the soldiers being shipped over there? Is it to liberate Iraq or just to last the duration of the term they are serving? Is the overall goal to come back alive? If so, then this is not a war but an (dis)organized killing tournament between a maniacal head of state and an everlasting supply of insurgents.

I just finished reading an article in the Buffalo News today in which it highlights a dozen or so fallen soldiers and talks a little about their lives and how they died. Rather than looking at the big picture of the war, maybe we can focus on the little accomplishments individual soldiers are making over there so that their deaths are not in vain.

Like for instance, one soldier, Staff Sgrt. Aram j Bass (Niagara Falls), was shot trying to save his commanding officer, who had been shot in the throat and was losing lots of blood. Sgt. Bass found an abandoned car, hot wired it, and he and a second soldier put the wounded officer int he car to drive him to safety. Gunfire erupted, and Sgt. Bass and the other solider were killed, while the commanding officer survived. -Buffalo News A5

Can we focus on stories like these for once, especially on a day like this, Memorial Day. Soldiers commit valiant acts every day, but are seldom reported. Why? Who knows. But good stories shouldn't be lost in the shuffle because of news reporters' biased agendas.

Also, Sgt. 1st Class Robert Derenda (Cheektowaga) was honored and chosen to have a Readiness Center in fort Dix named after him because he was a volunteer in the National Guard and volunteered to go to Iraq.

[mark3274]

well some people on here will tell you that they are there to bring "freedom" to Iraq...

but if you buy that there's some ocean front property in vegas as well. Mostly you will find repubs defending bush and this dumb war as some great cause. Hell why not give bush his wish and repaint all US navy ships in exxonmobile corporate colors that would be closer to the truth why we are there and everyone knows it.

[uppy]

Great Post Amos !

[BUSH43ROX]

They're dying for Freedom and our enemies hate freedom- Fact. This gibby sounds like he is missing some screws.

[pmoon6]

They're dying for Freedom and our enemies hate freedom- Fact. This gibby sounds like he is missing some screws.I think Gibby just invented another internet persona. You right about having screws loose.

Remember, knowing you have a problem is the first step in rectifying it.

[sahlensguy]

It's not just the almost 4,000 and rising lives that have died in vain, but the thousnads more American soldiers and families that are living in vain.

This war where the troops can not easily identify thier enemy until they themselves are shot at, is a stressful situation that is causing mental breakdowns at a higher # than all of the Vitenam war. The lack of an overwhelming force in a PC war puts soldiers in a position to fail. Redeploy those soldiers, in some cases mutltiple times, and of course they have a great shot at beign screwed up in the head when they come home - if they make back at all.

[jimmifli]

Rhetorical questions usually don't make good threads.

[TRIPLE P]

My concern lies with the troops: If the American public continues to criticize the war and the war effort by saying we shouldn't be there, what kind of effect does that have on our troops overseas? I'm not saying that is wrong to criticize the Iraq War, just the manner in which some people are doing it. Is it necessary to be so public and vocal about it? Because eventually those anti-war headlines make it to our soldiers.

.

People not being vocal, or keeping thier mouths shut for the troops morale sake is not a good thing.

No one is criticizing the troops, or saying the war is bad because they are doing a bad job (some are, some aren't)

The "hurting the troops morale" argument is bullshit IMO.... that shouldn't come into play when we're talking about a war.... Politicians, protesters, the media, etc absolutely SHOULD NOT take into account the effect of what they are doing on the psychological well being of the troops.... keeping the troops motivated and happy is not thier responsibility....

Fact is the troops shouldn't be very motivated....they are in a mess of a situation with no end in sight, no real strategy in place except "send more", no real leadership and no real goal....

Its sad to say, and I feel badly for the men and women over there... but keeping quiet and not discussing the truth or the facts at hand isn't going to help them either.

[JoetheDictator]

People not being vocal, or keeping thier mouths shut for the troops moral sake is not a good thing.

No one is criticizing the troops, or saying the war is bad because they are doing a bad job (some are, some aren't)

The "hurting the troops morale" argument is bullshit IMO.... that shouldn't come into play when we're talking about a war.... Politicians, protesters, the media, etc absolutely SHOULD NOT take into account the effect of what they are doing on the psychological well being of the troops.... keeping the troops motivated and happy is not thier responsibility....

Fact is the troops shouldn't be very motivated....they are in a mess of a situation with no end in sight, no real strategy in place except "send more", no real leadership and no real goal....

Its sad to say, and I feel badly for the men and women over there... but keeping quiet and not discussing the truth or the facts at hand isn't going to help them either.

exactly, but of course I gotta say it: TP why do you hate freedom?

[FamousAmos]

People not being vocal, or keeping thier mouths shut for the troops morale sake is not a good thing.

No one is criticizing the troops, or saying the war is bad because they are doing a bad job (some are, some aren't)

The "hurting the troops morale" argument is bullshit IMO.... that shouldn't come into play when we're talking about a war.... Politicians, protesters, the media, etc absolutely SHOULD NOT take into account the effect of what they are doing on the psychological well being of the troops.... keeping the troops motivated and happy is not thier responsibility....

Fact is the troops shouldn't be very motivated....they are in a mess of a situation with no end in sight, no real strategy in place except "send more", no real leadership and no real goal....

Its sad to say, and I feel badly for the men and women over there... but keeping quiet and not discussing the truth or the facts at hand isn't going to help them either.

Yeah man, I understand your point clearly. This is probably the worst equation to make, but for example, two parents getting a divorce, and they have a few kids between them. The kids obviously have no power or ability to fix the situation, they just have to watch and see how the situation plays out. Whatever happens, the kids get the short end of the stick. From their perspective, they see two authority figures arguing over something that is extremely important to their lives and whether a separation will positively or negatively effect their lives. But they can't do anything about it, except choose which parent they want to live with. The problem i have with divorce and war in the larger context, is the idea of being selfish.

Bush is being selfish because he has drawn out this war to meet his selfish needs of finishing what dad started and trying to build a legacy or whatever bullshit reason he has for doing this. Liberals and anti-war personalities are selfish for disregarding the troops in their pursuit to end the war in their tunnel vision approach to fulfill their agenda to get rid of Bush and his mistakes by protesting and stopping funds for defense and for the Iraq war. Bush is also selfish for disregarding the health and well being of our troops, so thats a mutual disregard for both camps.

So I guess the questions for liberals is what's the focus here in protesting the war? Because it seems like the importance lies not with the safeguard of our troops but with getting rid of the cancer that plagues the white house now. It's more important to vilify president Bush than it is to guarantee the safety of the troops. It is more important to band aid America's image in the Middle East. My view is that the liberals are taking a Holistic Top Down approach rather than a Bottom Up approach to rectifying this horrible situation.

[35Pete]

People not being vocal, or keeping thier mouths shut for the troops morale sake is not a good thing.

No one is criticizing the troops, or saying the war is bad because they are doing a bad job (some are, some aren't)

The "hurting the troops morale" argument is bullshit IMO.... that shouldn't come into play when we're talking about a war.... Politicians, protesters, the media, etc absolutely SHOULD NOT take into account the effect of what they are doing on the psychological well being of the troops.... keeping the troops motivated and happy is not thier responsibility....

Fact is the troops shouldn't be very motivated....they are in a mess of a situation with no end in sight, no real strategy in place except "send more", no real leadership and no real goal....

Its sad to say, and I feel badly for the men and women over there... but keeping quiet and not discussing the truth or the facts at hand isn't going to help them either.

Wow. You know what? You hate our freedoms! And that, by definition makes you an enemy combatant. Reporting your IP address to the NSA and FBI immediately.

You hate America.

[35Pete]

well some people on here will tell you that they are there to bring "freedom" to Iraq...

but if you buy that there's some ocean front property in vegas as well. Mostly you will find repubs defending bush and this dumb war as some great cause. Hell why not give bush his wish and repaint all US navy ships in exxonmobile corporate colors that would be closer to the truth why we are there and everyone knows it.

LMFAO!!!

There is much more truth to that than you allude to. Who really supports this war? Exxon, KBR, Raytheon, and General Dynamics.

[shiva2999]

My view is that the liberals are taking a Holistic Top Down approach rather than a Bottom Up approach to rectifying this horrible situation.

More idiotic right-wing spin.

This like saying let's not worry about busting Al Capone and his henchmen but instead let's try to convince people that liquor, prostitution and gambling are bad for them.

[FamousAmos]

More idiotic right-wing spin.

This like saying let's not worry about busting Al Capone and his henchmen but instead let's try to convince people that liquor, prostitution and gambling are bad for them.

sort of, but not quite. You're getting close, though, Shiva!

[shiva2999]

sort of, but not quite. You're getting close, though, Shiva!

Are you one of those clever guys who have your own version of the English language?

[FamousAmos]

Are you one of those clever guys who have your own version of the English language?

I never thought of myself as clever, but if the shirt fits... :wink4:

[shiva2999]

I never thought of myself as clever, but if the shirt fits... :wink4:

It not only fits, it looks great on you!

http://www.bushsucks.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/bush-pedophile.jpg