The Implantable MicroChip. Do You Want To Be Tagged Like Livestock?

[35Pete]

I've known about this in the technological community for about 8 years.

This is beyond, I mean way beyond Orwellian. It's like a prison grid.

There is a subtle push by the government, some media, and a few corporations (to make billions and billions) to implant a tiny microchip under the skin of every citizen in the country. It is to be used for physical and financial security.

This is absolutely sick. Verichip Corp. is one of the companies making this implantable device. Another is in Sarasota, FL.

The RFID device contains a GPS unit and an identifier. So you can be tracked in any city, or literally anywhere via LEO (low earth orbit) satellite.

The precursor to this is the REAL ID Act of 2005. It contains an RFID chip embedded into the ID card. Same principle, same technological capabilities. In June of 2008, we are all required to get a National ID with a tracking device in it. That's pretty sick.

[35Pete]

I mean what kind of "go along" person would lack such a sense or self-preservation, such a meek and sheepish personality, to just "go along" with this?

And we'll paint it as such a good thing for society. Why you don't have to wait in a checkout line at the supermarket! Our medical records will be right there! Children won't get kidnapped anymore! We'll get terrorists and bad guys! And many sheep will praise it without even giving 3 seconds thought of the consequences.

Thank God most people would rather forego these "wonderful benefits" because they have enough dignity not to participate in such an incredible invasion of privacy and loss of freedom.

HOWEVER. You know corporate and government interests. When a few billion are on the line and incredible data mining at large these people WILL NEVER GIVE UP. Watch them blitz us in an attempt to soften us up to take the tag, and litterally become part of human inventory control.

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[35Pete]

http://www.verichipcorp.com/graphics/main/maintop.jpg


http://www.verichipcorp.com/

Notice grandma smiling as she gets tagged like livestock. How wonderful! Now she can't wander off of the nursing home! Horraayy!!

The businessman in the suit. He needs one too! Can't think of a good reason to tell you yet but give me time. I'll come up with a tearjerker.

Look at the cute little baby in the marketing banner!!!

Oooo. Cutchy cutchy cutchy coo.

What kind of thoughtless and mean person wouldn't want to microchip this darling little baby for his/her protection?

Do it. Do it for the children.

Do it for the police so that they can sit in their cruisers on the side of the road and scan all of you driving by for outstanding parking tickets warrants.

[35Pete]

Applied Digital Solutions.

http://www.adsx.com/


We need to strengthen the constitution by adding unambiguous language with a privacy amendment. Obviously these clowns are doing an end around.

[35Pete]

This video is on RFIDs presently used for cargo. Note how much information a box of cargo transmits just by being within proximity of a scanner.

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[35Pete]

Now add your own personal "homing beacon" to this data and you can see the nightmare situation:

http://www.privacyinternational.org/survey/phr2005/phrmap2005telegraph.jpg

[sukie]

If patient and families rights are not violated what is the problem with this device implanted, with informed consent, in alzheimer's patients?

[35Pete]

If patient and families rights are not violated what is the problem with this device implanted, with informed consent, in alzheimer's patients?

If patient and family rights are not violated.....

Jesus. Haven't we learned the folly of this statement yet?

We've done fine without it for 230 years. We don't need it now.

Look at the map in post #6 sukie.

[sukie]

So you are against informed consent implantation in Alzheimers patients?

[35Pete]

So you are against informed consent implantation in Alzheimers patients?

Yes. I am.

This type of technology is always expanded upon, always. And always inevitably abused.

The problem with you neocons is your unbelievable ignorance of history. Shockingly ignorant.

[sukie]

Alzheimer's Community Care Facility, in West Palm Beach Florida, intends to begin implanting radio frequency identification chips, RFID, in Alzheimer patients, despite the outcry of violation of privacy.

This RFID chip is designed to be implanted under the skin in the right forearm and contains a 16 digit number that can be scanned in the emergency room to link to the patient's medical history. According to VeriChip Corp. this chip does not contain any information other than the ID number and does not have GPS tracking capabilities. When scanned, the chip sends a message via radio waves to transmit the unique ID number. This ID number then enables the facility to access records connected to this number.

...

Barnes believes that in ideal circumstances, consent would not be an issue, because families and the Alzheimer patient would begin receiving services and resources prior to advanced stages of Alzheimer's. In this stage, the patient would be capable of making informed decisions and either give or deny consent for such a device in later stages.

She claims the patient's wishes concerning the RFID chip implant would remain unimpeachable. Their wishes would be followed.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/250658/rfid_chip_implants_planned_for_alzheimers.html?pag e=2

[35Pete]

Alzheimer's Community Care Facility, in West Palm Beach Florida, intends to begin implanting radio frequency identification chips, RFID, in Alzheimer patients, despite the outcry of violation of privacy.

This RFID chip is designed to be implanted under the skin in the right forearm and contains a 16 digit number that can be scanned in the emergency room to link to the patient's medical history. According to VeriChip Corp. this chip does not contain any information other than the ID number and does not have GPS tracking capabilities. When scanned, the chip sends a message via radio waves to transmit the unique ID number. This ID number then enables the facility to access records connected to this number.

...

Barnes believes that in ideal circumstances, consent would not be an issue, because families and the Alzheimer patient would begin receiving services and resources prior to advanced stages of Alzheimer's. In this stage, the patient would be capable of making informed decisions and either give or deny consent for such a device in later stages.

She claims the patient's wishes concerning the RFID chip implant would remain unimpeachable. Their wishes would be followed.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/250658/rfid_chip_implants_planned_for_alzheimers.html?pag e=2

Maybe we should tattoo people also, huh? Hell, use barcodes.

Your ignorance of history is amazing. I'm not just talking tattoos either.

There are several vendors. Many do have GPS capability.

[sukie]

Where's the link from post one?

[35Pete]

Where's the link from post one?

Those are my words. Don't be lazy. Use google.

[sukie]

I sensed fear based paranoid pontification... It smelled papal.

[sukie]

Thank God GM has weak market share, eh Pete?

Would it surprise you to find out that the FBI might be able to monitor private conversations in your car? A recent court case revealed that the FBI used the popular OnStar system to do just that.
GM cars equipped with OnStar are supposed to be the leading edge of safety and technology. OnStar has run a recent blitz of commercials citing helpless motorists calling in with every type of emergency, from a heart attack to locking the keys inside the car. In the advertising world, OnStar reacts quickly by sending help or even unlocking the car.

However, buried deep inside the OnStar system is a feature few suspected – the ability to eavesdrop on unsuspecting motorists.

The FBI found out about this passive listening feature and promptly served OnStar with a court order forcing the company to give it access. The court order the FBI gave OnStar was not something out of the Patriot Act involving international terrorism or national security but a simple criminal case.

According to court records, OnStar complied with the order but filed a protest lawsuit against the FBI.

Yet the FBI was able to enforce the original legal order and completed its surveillance because OnStar's lawsuit took nearly two years to pass through the court system.


An OnStar vehicle modem
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals recently ruled in OnStar's favor. The ruling was not based on invasion-of-privacy grounds or some other legitimate constitutional basis. The FBI lost because the OnStar passive listening feature disables the emergency signal, the very life-saving call for help that the advertisements tout as the main reason to purchase the system.

"The precedent has been set," stated former Georgia Rep. Bob Barr.

"The grounds on which the 9th Circuit reached the decision were not on the privacy aspects of the case. Under the CALEA [Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act] laws, the FBI blocking of the emergency signal constituted a breach of the consumers’ contract."

The technical problem of blocking the emergency signal is clearly one that the FBI tech teams can overcome. Thus, under the current ruling, the FBI can resume using OnStar to monitor subject vehicles once it has solved the emergency issue.

http://www.tonyrogers.com/news/onstar.htm

[comericatigers]

I don't like the idea of chips implanted in my body or my families. Big Brother is too Big. My idea is to implant the chips in all Mexicans. Then when they cross the border, we can find them, arrests them, and deport them. Future illegal immigration problem solved.

The on star thing is ridiculous and it actually pisses me off.

[Green Lantern]

If patient and family rights are not violated.....

Jesus. Haven't we learned the folly of this statement yet?

We've done fine without it for 230 years. We don't need it now.

Look at the map in post #6 sukie.

Pete, post #6 states that the UK has constitutional safeguards in place... England does not have a constitution.

[35Pete]

Pete, post #6 states that the UK has constitutional safeguards in place... England does not have a constitution.

I think that they are referring to constitutional conventions. But you bring up an interesting point. Is the lack of a codified contract between their government and their people a catalyst for their becoming such a surveillance society?

[35Pete]

I don't like the idea of chips implanted in my body or my families. Big Brother is too Big. My idea is to implant the chips in all Mexicans. Then when they cross the border, we can find them, arrests them, and deport them. Future illegal immigration problem solved.

The on star thing is ridiculous and it actually pisses me off.

No. How many times, really, how many times does history in all of it's forms, prove that when you allow exceptions you've let the camel's nose in under the tent? No exceptions. None. Illegals are not cattle either. They piss me off being here but in order to secure a liberty for yourself you must demonstrate that it is universal.

[г]

Sukie would like everyone to bend over and take a chip up the ass.

Since he's been repeatedly buggered in the name of 'terrorism,' then he somehow thinks it's ok for the government to bugger the rest of you (because he's skeered).

[Green Lantern]

I think that they are referring to constitutional conventions. But you bring up an interesting point. Is the lack of a codified contract between their government and their people a catalyst for their becoming such a surveillance society?

I do not think that is so. I think it is more a culturally driven mind-set. The people of the government come from the society and reflect their hopes and fears.

[uppy]

My idea is to implant the chips in all Mexicans. Then when they cross the border, we can find them, arrests them, and deport them. Future illegal immigration problem solved.



Thats a great idea !!!!!!

[sukie]

Hey I'm pissed that a milk carton has "milk" as an ingredient but fails to inform us "of what mammalian species"... I'll deal with it however.

[sukie]

Sukie would like everyone to bend over and take a chip up the ass.

Since he's been repeatedly buggered in the name of 'terrorism,' then he somehow thinks it's ok for the government to bugger the rest of you (because he's skeered).

Pete pontificated about the gubment. I showed patient consent uses.

[35Pete]

Sukie would like everyone to bend over and take a chip up the ass.

Since he's been repeatedly buggered in the name of 'terrorism,' then he somehow thinks it's ok for the government to bugger the rest of you.

Our government is engaged in a comprehensive fear based campaign to trade in some of our freedoms because there are terrorists everywhere and only they can protect us.

Not true. I check under my bed every morning for terrorists and have not found one yet.

Although I am keeping notes and video on a suspicious arab neighbor.

[uppy]

Whats the big deal .....if it could help to keep illegal aliens out I'm all for it

[comericatigers]

No. How many times, really, how many times does history in all of it's forms, prove that when you allow exceptions you've let the camel's nose in under the tent? No exceptions. None. Illegals are not cattle either. They piss me off being here but in order to secure a liberty for yourself you must demonstrate that it is universal.

Pete, i am being sarcastic about with regard to the illegals. And you are right, the American people are either all going to get a chip or none of them will.

[sukie]

Our government is engaged in a comprehensive fear based campaign to trade in some of our freedoms because there are terrorists everywhere and only they can protect us.

Not true. I check under my bed every morning for terrorists and have not found one yet.

Although I am keeping notes and video on a suspicious arab neighbor.

Ah but do you also check for listening devices and shut your cell phone off while driving? Do you wear a mask at ATM's when withdrawling from your own account?

[35Pete]

Whats the big deal .....if it could help to keep illegal aliens out I'm all for it

That's a shocker.

We'll tag em' and treat them like jews.



http://www.warelics.com/images/tyrolSS.jpg

[comericatigers]

How about this, we can't put them in all Mexcians--not practical. How about if the illegals are caught, we then put the chip in them. This will monitor them and if they cross again, you can easily find them.

Of course we need a fence first with armed guards and gun turrets

[Green Lantern]

Whats the big deal .....if it could help to keep illegal aliens out I'm all for it

This chip is for you, not illegals. Did you not read the thread? I bet you have your computer programmed so when you type :ILLEGALS: the above words pop into the thread box for you...to save time.

[sukie]

No link to this chip being for all of us.

[г]

I think the Irish should be tracked

[Green Lantern]

How about this, we can't put them in all Mexcians--not practical. How about if the illegals are caught, we then put the chip in them. This will monitor them and if they cross again, you can easily find them.

Of course we need a fence first with armed guards and gun turrets

How about Nicaraguans? Or Chinese?

Just Mexicans?

[uppy]

That's a shocker.

We'll tag em' and treat them like jews.



http://www.warelics.com/images/tyrolSS.jpg


No, the illegal aliens are Criminals the Jews where citizens.

[sukie]

I think the Irish should be tracked

"Hey... Where the F is Bono?" beep beep beep... "Shit, he's at the Vatican again!"

[г]

If you want to track the Mexicans, just implant these little chips into the vinyl shoes bought at Payless.

[sukie]

Uppy shops Payless... Could be an inherent fault within the plan.

[comericatigers]

How about Nicaraguans? Or Chinese?

Just Mexicans?

Nice suggestion. But the Mexicans are the top priority.

[35Pete]

No link to this chip being for all of us.

Here's some trends sukie:

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[Green Lantern]

No, the illegal aliens are Criminals the Jews where citizens.

That is your only objection to marking humans...they were citizens.

LOL.

[35Pete]

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[sukie]

Pete... we were also told cars would fly. Speculative at best.

[35Pete]

Pete... we were also told cars would fly. Speculative at best.

These cars are flying. Watch the videos.

[Green Lantern]

Pete... we were also told cars would fly. Speculative at best.

Really.

And Roddenberry speculated that people would talk to each other via these little flip phones that you could carry around on a clip at your waist.

[nehemiah]

OKLAHOMA CITY 2007-05-24 Legislation that would authorize microchip implants in people convicted of violent crimes was sent back to a
committee yesterday.
This after state House members questioned whether the proposal would violate constitutional civil liberties.
The measure, approved by the Senate, authorizes microchip implants for persons convicted of one or more of 19 violent
offenses who have to serve at least 85 percent of their sentence.
The tiny electronic implants are commonly used to keep track of pets and livestock, but several House members questioned whether their forced use in people would be unconstitutionally invasive.
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kosu/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1087265&sectionID=1

[uppy]

Uppy shops Payless... Could be an inherent fault within the plan.


I shop at Walmart too,they don't allow unions its a great place !

[sukie]

Nehe... WTF does it mean... 85% of thier sentences? What if they received life?

[35Pete]

Ministry of Homeland Security Requires Biometric Identification For 150,000 workers. Cards for now but wouldn't implants be logistically superior? First get people used to the card. Start slowly, with select populations that "emminently make sense", then expand to other groups as they are desensitized to it.

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[sukie]

Wow that's full of assumptions.

[35Pete]

It's amazing what you neocons will accept.

Only liberals and libertarians are bitching about this.

CATO is very strongly opposed, ACLU is venoumously opposed, almost all christian groups are opposed (mark of the beast stuff...), privacy groups are opposed, true paleoconservatives are opposed.

But the neocons love the idea. Go figure.

[35Pete]

Wow that's full of assumptions.

Speculation based on broad historical observations. That's why your ignorance of history hurts you. :D

[г]

Uppy shops Payless... Could be an inherent fault within the plan.

He makes his own blue cheese for his wings on a hot day in those vinyl hot-houses.

[sukie]

There is nothing to accept here but ramblings of a paranoid mind. Hypotheticals don't rile me.

[Green Lantern]

Ministry of Homeland Security Requires Biometric Identification For 150,000 workers. Cards for now but wouldn't implants be logistically superior? First get people used to the card. Start slowly, with select populations that "emminently make sense", then expand to other groups as they are desensitized to it.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/My7ANDuohKw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/My7ANDuohKw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Wow that's full of assumptions.

Why, exactly, do you think these companies are making this sort of thing for people if they did not think they could sell it somewhere some day?

[nehemiah]

Nehe... WTF does it mean... 85% of thier sentences? What if they received life?some crimes have a statutory requirement to serve 85% of the sentence... i.e. you get sentenced for 10 years and you HAVE to serve 8.5 years before any release - no parole, no time off for good behavior, etc... it's a way to undermine parole.

i would assume that those 19 crimes have that 85% requirement attached to the sentence.

[sukie]

Speculation based on broad historical observations. That's why your ignorance of history hurts you. :D

You have historical observations of dermal implantations?

[uppy]

OKLAHOMA CITY 2007-05-24 Legislation that would authorize microchip implants in people convicted of violent crimes was sent back to a
committee yesterday.
This after state House members questioned whether the proposal would violate constitutional civil liberties.
The measure, approved by the Senate, authorizes microchip implants for persons convicted of one or more of 19 violent
offenses who have to serve at least 85 percent of their sentence.
The tiny electronic implants are commonly used to keep track of pets and livestock, but several House members questioned whether their forced use in people would be unconstitutionally invasive.
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kosu/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1087265&sectionID=1

The death penalty is the answer and its constitutionally ok.

[35Pete]

You have historical observations of dermal implantations?

Stop asking stupid irrelevant questions.

[sukie]

Stop broad stroking anyone who thonks you are fear mongering as a passive neocon...

Pete, seriously edit the avi so it looks like a KKK hood made out of tin foil... your protection is spotty at best.

[Green Lantern]

It's amazing what you neocons will accept.

Only liberals and libertarians are bitching about this.

CATO is very strongly opposed, ACLU is venoumously opposed, almost all christian groups are opposed (mark of the beast stuff...), privacy groups are opposed, true paleoconservatives are opposed.

But the neocons love the idea. Go figure.

Most frightened people in America.

[sukie]

I, a broad stroke tagged neocon. am all for what? Allowing patients and families of patients sufferring from Alzheimers to consent to an implant?

[35Pete]

I, a broad stroke tagged neocon. am all for what? Allowing patients and families of patients sufferring from Alzheimers to consent to an implant?

In all my days observing politics I have never seen a group of people take such a cavalier attitude towards privacy as the neocon sheeple. Nor have I ever seen such a butchering of civil liberties as that done by the neocon movement.

Never.

The leaders phrase it as "patriotism" or "protecting America" and the sheep spread their cheeks and beg for it deep.

And everytime I point out one of these abuses, my observations are that you are right their defending it's need.

What else am I to conclude?

[sukie]

Correlation causality Pete. Passivism doth not a Neocon make.

[ICRockets]

Passivism? I see none of that here. I see you straight up defending an abominable idea.

"Pete, you don't want this to be done for Alzheimer's patients? Why don't you have a soul?"

[35Pete]

Passivism? I see none of that here. I see you straight up defending an abominable idea.

"Pete, you don't want this to be done for Alzheimer's patients? Why don't you have a soul?"

Automatic reaction. It was the liberals that first raised a red flag over this. The ACLU specifically. LOL

Then the libertarians and the true (non-militant, non-religious nutcase) conservatives, then the Christians when someone mentioned "mark of the beast".

[Gibby]

I've known about this in the technological community for about 8 years.

This is beyond, I mean way beyond Orwellian. It's like a prison grid.

There is a subtle push by the government, some media, and a few corporations (to make billions and billions) to implant a tiny microchip under the skin of every citizen in the country. It is to be used for physical and financial security.

This is absolutely sick. Verichip Corp. is one of the companies making this implantable device. Another is in Sarasota, FL.

The RFID device contains a GPS unit and an identifier. So you can be tracked in any city, or literally anywhere via LEO (low earth orbit) satellite.

The precursor to this is the REAL ID Act of 2005. It contains an RFID chip embedded into the ID card. Same principle, same technological capabilities. In June of 2008, we are all required to get a National ID with a tracking device in it. That's pretty sick.

Its prophesied but I guarantee you that the Right wing rapture nuts will not call this thing evil unless a democrat starts it. If Bush starts this shit, and from your article it looks like he will, it will be hailed as making us safer and helping us. Thus proving the scripture in Revelation "he will be able to deceive the elect (the Christian) if such a thing were possible."

Anyhow Pete, you and others (me included are going to be ignored) The implant will be seen as a beautiful thing. Implant your kid (much like your pet) and if he or she ever gets kidnapped or lost then GPS will find him quickly. Implant yourself and if there is a dynamic terrorist attack (and trust me its coming courtesy of PNAC) then rescuers will be able to quickly locate you or your body so you can receive medical attention or be returned to your family. Sexual predators? No worry they get the chip and we can track their movements and thats the same with all violent criminals so they escape then no matter as the long arm of the law will quickly catch them. Credit theft? No credit card as all transactions will be done with new federal ID number and your chip replaces the credit card.

It will be widely hailed as a step forward and the sheep will all run to trough to get it.

[sukie]

Passivism? I see none of that here. I see you straight up defending an abominable idea.

"Pete, you don't want this to be done for Alzheimer's patients? Why don't you have a soul?"

I was defending what I posted not the manifestaions of a paranoid mind.

[Gibby]

No, the illegal aliens are Criminals the Jews where citizens.

they were citizens? Really what the ****? Have you seriously never heard of the Nuremberg Laws? No? Well young man you're going to get an education today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_laws

Now you know.

[Gibby]

they were citizens? Soviet, Polish, Czech, Dutch, and French? Okay, but after the Nuremberg laws they weren't citizens of the Reich but mere subjects.

[Gibby]

But what the **** do I know I'm a historian and have to deal in reality and God damn it it happens that many times reality has a liberal bias. ****.

[35Pete]

Its prophesied but I guarantee you that the Right wing rapture nuts will not call this thing evil unless a democrat starts it. If Bush starts this shit, and from your article it looks like he will, it will be hailed as making us safer and helping us. Thus proving the scripture in Revelation "he will be able to deceive the elect (the Christian) if such a thing were possible."

Anyhow Pete, you and others (me included are going to be ignored) The implant will be seen as a beautiful thing. Implant your kid (much like your pet) and if he or she ever gets kidnapped or lost then GPS will find him quickly. Implant yourself and if there is a dynamic terrorist attack (and trust me its coming courtesy of PNAC) then rescuers will be able to quickly locate you or your body so you can receive medical attention or be returned to your family. Sexual predators? No worry they get the chip and we can track their movements and thats the same with all violent criminals so they escape then no matter as the long arm of the law will quickly catch them. Credit theft? No credit card as all transactions will be done with new federal ID number and your chip replaces the credit card.

It will be widely hailed as a step forward and the sheep will all run to trough to get it.

And they sheep will swallow the marketing crap hook, line, and sinker. But I do like that a broad political spectrum, save the Nazis, oppose this thing.

[Gibby]

And they sheep will swallow the marketing crap hook, line, and sinker. But I do like that a broad political spectrum, save the Nazis, oppose this thing.

the sheep already are, do you have a link to that florida family?

[Gibby]

Wow that's full of assumptions.

yeah, but sometimes as an arch conservative prof I had once said "sometimes paranoia is just good thinking (especially if someone's out to get ya)"

[Gibby]

It's amazing what you neocons will accept.

Only liberals and libertarians are bitching about this.

CATO is very strongly opposed, ACLU is venoumously opposed, almost all christian groups are opposed (mark of the beast stuff...), privacy groups are opposed, true paleoconservatives are opposed.

But the neocons love the idea. Go figure.

can sukie and uppy id the evil group?

[Gibby]

The death penalty is the answer and its constitutionally ok.

is it?

Read this (I know you have never read the constitution, but read this)

Amendment 8: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

if snuffing someone's life isn't cruel or unusual I don't know what is. Also there have been numerous sociological studies that show that the death penalty does nothing to stop violent crime. New England and the Northeast has the fewest executions and the lowest violent crime rate. The south has the most executions and highest violent crime rate http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

So I ask you again is it constitutional when the language and spirit of the document suggests that it is not, and is it effective when police chiefs say its not and statistics show that violent crimes are not detered by the death penalty?

Change your mind? I thought you would.

[Green Lantern]

Sukie would like everyone to bend over and take a chip up the ass.

Since he's been repeatedly buggered in the name of 'terrorism,' then he somehow thinks it's ok for the government to bugger the rest of you (because he's skeered).

7163

[sukie]

Gibby did you even read my link on the non gps type Alzheimer's patient consented implants?

[г]

Speaking of chips, I put on a pair of walking shorts that I haven't worn since September today, reached in one of the pockets and found my stupid 1gb and 256mb SD cards for my camera that I've been missing since the fall LOL

My wife washed them and they're fine.

[35Pete]

7163

She's got a real cute pooper.

[35Pete]

Twelve states have told the federal government, citing 9th and 10th amendment rights, to **** off with the REAL ID. They won't abide by it.

http://www.realnightmare.org/

http://www.realnightmare.org/news/105/

11 state laws saying **** off have already passed one chamber of that state's legislatures and 12 more states have already introduced bills.

That's amazing. It's a state revolt against the invasiveness of the federal government. The constitutional checks against the imperial president are in motion.

See George? They really do hate you in the heartland.

[uppy]

is it?

Read this (I know you have never read the constitution, but read this)

Amendment 8: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

if snuffing someone's life isn't cruel or unusual I don't know what is. Also there have been numerous sociological studies that show that the death penalty does nothing to stop violent crime. New England and the Northeast has the fewest executions and the lowest violent crime rate. The south has the most executions and highest violent crime rate http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

So I ask you again is it constitutional when the language and spirit of the document suggests that it is not, and is it effective when police chiefs say its not and statistics show that violent crimes are not detered by the death penalty?

Change your mind? I thought you would.

Why would I change my mind on the death penalty... LOL

Its constitutional its been going on since the founding of the country.

[35Pete]

Why would I change my mind on the death penalty... LOL

Its constitutional its been going on since the founding of the country.

Do innocent people get put to death with the death penalty Uppy?

[Green Lantern]

Do innocent people get put to death with the death penalty Uppy?

Freedom isn't free.

[uppy]

Do innocent people get put to death with the death penalty Uppy?

I'm sure some have no system is mistake proof.

[35Pete]

Freedom isn't free.

From a moral perspective if guilt/innocence was 100% statistically indisputable then I'd have no issue with the death penalty. An eye for an eye.

But I'd rather commute to life imprisonment 1,000 murderers than put to death one innocent man.

[35Pete]

I'm sure some have no system is mistake proof.

So you are OK with occassionally putting to death an innocent man here and there, huh?

[uppy]

From a moral perspective if guilt/innocence was 100% statistically indisputable then I'd have no issue with the death penalty. An eye for an eye.

But I'd rather commute to life imprisonment 1,000 murderers than put to death one innocent man.

What in life is 100% statistically indisputable ?

O and to save Gibby or some other clown the time I will add......

What in life is 100% statistically indisputable, uppy making idiot posts

[uppy]

So you are OK with occassionally putting to death an innocent man here and there, huh?

I regret if it happens but I find no reason to change the system

[Green Lantern]

From a moral perspective if guilt/innocence was 100% statistically indisputable then I'd have no issue with the death penalty. An eye for an eye.

But I'd rather commute to life imprisonment 1,000 murderers than put to death one innocent man.

Greater good, and all that.

You should be proud to be an American if you are hanged after a fair trial.

[35Pete]

I regret if it happens but I find no reason to change the system

Obviously you don't regret it.

[uppy]

Obviously you don't regret it.

Pete,I read some where that over 4000 Anerican citizens are killed each year

by illegal aliens but you moonbats want open borders.Question are 4000

innocent man put to death each year ?

[35Pete]

Pete,I read some where that over 4000 Anerican citizens are killed each year

by illegal aliens but you moonbats want open borders.Question are 4000

innocent man put to death each year ?

What does that matter? Really?

Your thinking on this is quite twisted and convoluted. You have the power to stop the execution of innocent men with your vote. Yet you refuse to?

[Gibby]

Why would I change my mind on the death penalty... LOL

Its constitutional its been going on since the founding of the country.

Using that argument slavery is okay too, as is women not having the right to vote, and lynching. Damn I miss the ole days. Give me the Antebellum south again. Of course my father in law would cut off my balls if he even remotely thought I was serious.

[Gibby]

Twelve states have told the federal government, citing 9th and 10th amendment rights, to **** off with the REAL ID. They won't abide by it.

http://www.realnightmare.org/

http://www.realnightmare.org/news/105/

11 state laws saying **** off have already passed one chamber of that state's legislatures and 12 more states have already introduced bills.

That's amazing. It's a state revolt against the invasiveness of the federal government. The constitutional checks against the imperial president are in motion.

See George? They really do hate you in the heartland.

Damn and I was beginning to hate Missouri. To my part time servants in the house of good ole boys (thats the general assembly in Jefferson City) I say huzzah.

[35Pete]

Using that argument slavery is okay too, as is women not having the right to vote, and lynching. Damn I miss the ole days. Give me the Antebellum south again. Of course my father in law would cut off my balls if he even remotely thought I was serious.

Not a good analogy. How about one's desire for blood revenge is so powerful that an innocent dead guy is well worth it to some. They don't even lose a wink's sleep I'll bet.

[uppy]

Using that argument slavery is okay too, as is women not having the right to vote, and lynching. Damn I miss the ole days. Give me the Antebellum south again. Of course my father in law would cut off my balls if he even remotely thought I was serious.

To be honest with you I don't think woman should have the right to vote :)

[35Pete]

To be honest with you I don't think woman should have the right to vote :)

Why's that Uppy?

[Gibby]

To be honest with you I don't think woman should have the right to vote :)

To be honest with you I think a woman shouldn't speak unless spoken to. I also don't think women should be in the armed forces, be allowed to drive, and lets cover them in burkhas.

[uppy]

What does that matter? Really?

Your thinking on this is quite twisted and convoluted. You have the power to stop the execution of innocent men with your vote. Yet you refuse to?

And you have the vote to stop illegals from comming into the country.

[35Pete]

And you have the vote to stop illegals from comming into the country.

Stop evading with irrelevant comments.

You're more than willing to kill innocent men if you can get the murderers. That's what you are saying.

[uppy]

Why's that Uppy?

They tend to vote for libbies

[uppy]

To be honest with you I think a woman shouldn't speak unless spoken to. I also don't think women should be in the armed forces, be allowed to drive, and lets cover them in burkhas.

Your're comming around

[35Pete]

The tend to vote for libbies

You know that in the eyes of God he'd consider you a murderer? I am sure of it. You realize that your voting record allows innocents to be put to death yet you allow it for blood lust revenge.

God won't forgive you for that.

[uppy]

Stop evading with irrelevant comments.

You're more than willing to kill innocent men if you can get the murderers. That's what you are saying.

No system is fool proof we do the best we can.

[35Pete]

No system is fool proof we do the best we can.

The best we can do is not put an innocent man to his death.

The death penalty is not a deterrent. Everyone knows that. If the courts were foolproof I'd support it for justice, not deterrence.

But it's not foolproof. So supporting it means that you are OK with killing an innocent man just so you feel better about killing the guilty.

I've got a real issue with that. So does the God you allege to worship.

[Green Lantern]

The best we can do is not put an innocent man to his death.

The death penalty is not a deterrent. Everyone knows that. If the courts were foolproof I'd support it for justice, not deterrence.

But it's not foolproof. So supporting it means that you are OK with killing an innocent man just so you feel better about killing the guilty.

I've got a real issue with that. So does the God you allege to worship.

The death penalty is the surest way to deter a person from ever taking another's life again.

Old Testament God agrees with me.

[35Pete]

The death penalty is the surest way to deter a person from ever taking another's life again.

Old Testament God agrees with me.

So's life in maximum security, high risk solitary confinement.

[Green Lantern]

So's life in maximum security, high risk solitary confinement.

There is no vengence associated with that, first, and second, THAT would be cruel punishment.

If you gave me the choice of death or life in prison, I'd choose death.

[coryjd]

This will NEVER happen.

Irrelevant post.

[35Pete]

This will NEVER happen.

Irrelevant post.

Not irrelevant. Several companies are making bukko money over this. Aqua makes a damn good point on that.

And REAL ID is a precursor. That's how things are done. That's how they manipulate us.

[coryjd]

Not irrelevant. Several companies are making bukko money over this. Aqua makes a damn good point on that.

And REAL ID is a precursor. That's how things are done. That's how they manipulate us.

True as that may be in making mucho dinero with this concept, it will never be implemented with humans. It is inhumane. Doing it in pets and animals is bad enough.

The day they try to do this to humans, is the day this country will self-destruct.

[35Pete]

True as that may be in making mucho dinero with this concept, it will never be implemented with humans. It is inhumane. Doing it in pets and animals is bad enough.

The day they try to do this to humans, is the day this country will self-destruct.

OK, but then never allow yourself to get used to the idea.

Twenty five years ago if you said someday smoking would be banned in public places, people would have looked at you like you were whacked.

[coryjd]

OK, but then never allow yourself to get used to the idea.

Twenty five years ago if you said someday smoking would be banned in public places, people would have looked at you like you were whacked.

Great point with the smoking, but I don't think that's as drastic as implanting chips into humans, like we're drones.

Plus, the smoking has an effect on other people's lives. That should have happened a loooooonnnnnnngggggggggg time ago.

[Green Lantern]

Great point with the smoking, but I don't think that's as drastic as implanting chips into humans, like we're drones.

Plus, the smoking has an effect on other people's lives. That should have happened a loooooonnnnnnngggggggggg time ago.

Difference of degree is so much harder to fight than difference of kind.

[35Pete]

Difference of degree is so much harder to fight than difference of kind.

I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy. But I do think you get the concept that I am trying to communicate. Incrementalism, consistent but slow pressure, and propaganda.

[uppy]

Great point with the smoking, but I don't think that's as drastic as implanting chips into humans, like we're drones.

Plus, the smoking has an effect on other people's lives. That should have happened a loooooonnnnnnngggggggggg time ago.

The second hand smoke debate is as dumb as the globel warming debate.

[Gibby]

Your're comming around

damn straight, I also think women should not be allowed to go anywhere without their father or husband's permission. They shouldn't be allowed to work if their husband is working. They should produce four or five genetically pure children without defect and for this when the order of glorious motherhood. They should not have a right to be in corporate jobs, the military, government, law, education or anything else.

[Green Lantern]

I'm not saying it's a perfect analogy. But I do think you get the concept that I am trying to communicate. Incrementalism, consistent but slow pressure, and propaganda.

I am agreeing with you. The question of how much should we interfere is more difficult to answer than if you are left with just a "yes/no" question.

Unfortunately, the "how much" option is usually the temporary solution to avoid conflict.

Hence Politics.

[matthew94]

I didn't read through this thread, but 35Pete asked about my thoughts regarding the chip in regards to the book of Revelation & the mark of the beast.

First, though only 1 view gets a lot of publicity, there are actually 4 common views of Revelation within the church and church history.

1. FUTURISTS think the events described in Revelation are almost all still future
2. HISTORICISTS think the events described in Revelation have been unfolding throughout the past 2000 years
3. IDEALISTS think the book of Revelation is simply symbolic for the general good vs. evil conflict
4. PRETERISTS thinkt he book of Revelation is primarily about events that occurred in the 1st century.

Within each of these 4 views, there are subdivisions. For example, within the FUTURIST camp exists an eschatological (end time doctrine) system known as dispensationalism. Dispensationism was created around 1830, but is now, seemingly, the most popular system among evangelicals. It is the eschatology of the Left Behind book series, Hal Lyndsay and most tv prophets. It is dispensationalism, and perhaps dispensationalism alone, that interprets this CHIP as a possible fulfillment of the 'mark of the beast'

I say all that to say this. Only 1 branch within one of the 4 eschatological camps views this CHIP as having any potential as a fulfillment of the 'mark of the beast.' And I'm not even a FUTURIST, let alone a dispensationalist (I'm a preterist), so I certainly don't think this CHIP has anything to do with the book of Revelation or end times in general.

There are various problems with thinking this CHIP could fulfill the passage about the mark of the beast. First, the greek word says the mark will be ON the person, not IN. Second, when one understands the apocalyptic genre in which Revelation was written, it becomes likely that the 'mark' is simply a symbol, not a physical reality. Gary DeMar states, "every jew would have understood that a mark on the hand or the forehead was an identification of loyalty, ownership, and heart felt allegiance to Jehovah."

Instead of looking for a present day or future fulfillment of the 'mark of the beast', I take John at his word when he states that his book is about events that were soon to take place in his day. I believe the bulk of Revelation was fulfilled in the 1st century jewish/roman war and the destruction of the temple in AD70.

[uppy]

Gibby you have given me 66 groans in the last week from this point in time

I will respond to each with my groan....LMAO

I do belive you should seek help.

[Green Lantern]

Gibby you have given me 66 groans in the last week from this point in time

I will respond to each with my groan....LMAO

I do belive you should seek help.

LOL.

You deserve a Thanks after all that mental trauma you've sustained.

[Gibby]

Gibby you have given me 66 groans in the last week from this point in time

I will respond to each with my groan....LMAO

I do belive you should seek help.

Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

[uppy]

Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

You need help Kid,Shiva was your white whale for a some time I guess

its my turn.


:partysmilies:


take the meds son

[uppy]

LOL.

You deserve a Thanks after all that mental trauma you've sustained.

No trauma with me,I'm thinking about poor gibby he has a history of this

stuff

[shiva2999]

Hitler 9/11

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[Gibby]

No trauma with me,I'm thinking about poor gibby he has a history of this

stuff

I'm either dead wrong or I'm crazy

You wouldn't care to put that to a vote would you?

Lets see thats either Mr. Smith goes to Washington or its this discussion

[Green Lantern]

No trauma with me,I'm thinking about poor gibby he has a history of this

stuff

He put me on Ignore once.

[uppy]

I'm either dead wrong or I'm crazy

You wouldn't care to put that to a vote would you?

Lets see thats either Mr. Smith goes to Washington or its this discussion

Take your meds son,thats all you may need I wish you the best of luck.

[uppy]

He put me on Ignore once.


You are the only one that has been on that list......lol

[mark3274]

True as that may be in making mucho dinero with this concept, it will never be implemented with humans. It is inhumane. Doing it in pets and animals is bad enough.

The day they try to do this to humans, is the day this country will self-destruct.

lol It wuld be very easy for the goverment to do this in stages of course.

First they make you get a new driver license with the chip in it then a few years down the road they could say well YOU can lose the card so inorder to improve safety we are going to implant your driver license in your arm people would be dumb enough to do whatever the goverment said or wanted.

[35Pete]

Gibby you have given me 66 groans in the last week from this point in time

I will respond to each with my groan....LMAO

I do belive you should seek help.

Gibby 66 times? Man, that's crazy. I only reserve groans for comments that really frost me.

[Victor7]

I don't like the idea of chips implanted in my body or my families. Big Brother is too Big. My idea is to implant the chips in all Mexicans. Then when they cross the border, we can find them, arrests them, and deport them. Future illegal immigration problem solved.

The on star thing is ridiculous and it actually pisses me off.

want me to get one too ???? .......... ignorant

[BUSH43ROX]

we need to be tracked. The terrorists could kidnap us and our loved ones would never see us again, but if we had these implants we could be tracked the bad guys killed and we be saved. You "constitutionalists" don't know shit. Its a post 9/11 world and its about time you got with the program.

[35Pete]

want me to get one too ???? .......... ignorant

If it's any consolation Victor I consider you a fellow equal human being. Hope you feel the same way this way. ;)

No chip for me. No chip for you.

[sukie]

So Pete if fellow human beings actually want chips you are against it?

[35Pete]

So Pete if fellow human beings actually want chips you are against it?

As long as no government agency is involved in it and it does not become required for any business.

But no business should EVER require it.

[sukie]

Who ( by link ) is requiring it?

[35Pete]

Who ( by link ) is requiring it?

See above. Ministry of Homeland Surveillance and Internal Security Against Sedition.

Dock workers. 150,000 workers related to "security".

What a bunch of shit.

[sukie]

Can't find it Who is forcing dockworkers to get tagged exactly

[35Pete]

Can't find it Who is forcing dockworkers to get tagged exactly

Post 50

[sukie]

So Pete... you are assuming the implant part again?

[35Pete]

So Pete... you are assuming the implant part again?

We know from example after example after example after example after example from history that incrementalism ALWAYS occurs with "good ideas". All angles of the political spectrum use this favored technique. There are so many examples staring us in the face yet when it's "our idea" then nooooo, incrementalism never happens. I don't know why exactly that's the case. Brain damaged stupidity, lying to protect the ultimate cause, denial, lack of knowledge of history. But where we get bent over again and again and again and again is when stuff like your posts blatantly suggest "nah, you're paranoid. There's no incrementalism". Hearing that is like friggin groundhog day. Yet it always happens and the denial is ALWAYS there. Statistically history is strong on my side and strongly counter to your naive denials. Just once it would be nice if people didn't go into ritual denial and bend over like the good sheep they are.

[coryjd]

The second hand smoke debate is as dumb as the globel warming debate.

Uppy - while most of the time I agree with you, I do not with this point. Why should I, or anyone else, be forced to be a part of someone else's disgusting habit?? When I go out to eat or in public, the last thing I want is to enhale someone else's smoke.

Lets put it this way - another disgusting habit is picking your nose. So you're telling me you wouldn't mind if someone picked their nose and then proceeded to flick their booger at you?

[ICRockets]

Uppy - while most of the time I agree with you, I do not with this point. Why should I, or anyone else, be forced to be a part of someone else's disgusting habit?? When I go out to eat or in public, the last thing I want is to enhale someone else's smoke.

Lets put it this way - another disgusting habit is picking your nose. So you're telling me you wouldn't mind if someone picked their nose and then proceeded to flick their booger at you?

Good comparison. I forgot boogers gave you cancer.

[coryjd]

Good comparison. I forgot boogers gave you cancer.

Did you even read the entire post and thread? I was referrencing Uppy's comment stating that second-hand smoke arugments are about as useless as the arguments about global warming.

I was simply referrencing another disgusting habit.

[TRIPLE P]

Lets put it this way - another disgusting habit is picking your nose. So you're telling me you wouldn't mind if someone picked their nose and then proceeded to flick their booger at you?

nearly everyone picks thier nose. those that don't should... there isn't a better way to clean your nose.

[sukie]

We know from example after example after example after example after example from history that incrementalism ALWAYS occurs with "good ideas". All angles of the political spectrum use this favored technique. There are so many examples staring us in the face yet when it's "our idea" then nooooo, incrementalism never happens. I don't know why exactly that's the case. Brain damaged stupidity, lying to protect the ultimate cause, denial, lack of knowledge of history. But where we get bent over again and again and again and again is when stuff like your posts blatantly suggest "nah, you're paranoid. There's no incrementalism". Hearing that is like friggin groundhog day. Yet it always happens and the denial is ALWAYS there. Statistically history is strong on my side and strongly counter to your naive denials. Just once it would be nice if people didn't go into ritual denial and bend over like the good sheep they are.

I'll await the multiple examples of this.

[uppy]

Uppy - while most of the time I agree with you, I do not with this point. Why should I, or anyone else, be forced to be a part of someone else's disgusting habit?? When I go out to eat or in public, the last thing I want is to enhale someone else's smoke.

Lets put it this way - another disgusting habit is picking your nose. So you're telling me you wouldn't mind if someone picked their nose and then proceeded to flick their booger at you?


I don't blame you for not wanting to smell the stuff ,my point is second hand

somke killing people is as big a pile of shit as man made globel warming.

[35Pete]

Second hand smoke has not been demonstrated to be a significant health hazard.

Smoking cigarettes will likely kill you sooner than not smoking of course. But the data on second hand smoke is statistically insignificant. I'm talking null hypothesis.

[Green Lantern]

I'll await the multiple examples of this.

FDR's social programs were supposed to be cancelled after the economic strife was over. He died before he could dismantle them.

Poor Pete.

[35Pete]

FDR's social programs were supposed to be cancelled after the economic strife was over. He died before he could dismantle them.

Poor Pete.

They would have never been dismantled. That's the problem.