The European Union - The New Soviet?

[35Pete]

A video by Vladimir Bukovsky, a Soviet dissident that spent many years in Soviet labor camps and psychiatric prisons for defending human rights. He came to Britain in 1976.

He lectures and writes on the old Soviet system and sees the European Union evolving exactly the way the old Soviet Union was. Except slowly, rather than by abrupt revolution.

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[Green Lantern]

I don't buy it. There are too many differences between their causes, purposes, and evolution.

[35Pete]

I don't buy it. There are too many differences between their causes, purposes, and evolution.

Hmm. He was a Soviet dissident. He's just remarking on the evolution of their system into something errily similar to the Soviet Republic system.

I'd bet that he's a bigger authority on this than you or I are.

[Green Lantern]

Hmm. He was a Soviet dissident. He's just remarking on the evolution of their system into something errily similar to the Soviet Republic system.

I'd bet that he's a bigger authority on this than you or I are.

He notes similarities.

I can state that there are similarities between us and gorilla's: Frontal, binocular vision, opposable thumbs... This does not mean we will become vegetarians while picking fleas off each other.

[35Pete]

He notes similarities.

I can state that there are similarities between us and gorilla's: Frontal, binocular vision, opposable thumbs... This does not mean we will become vegetarians while picking fleas off each other.

Come on aqua. You are usually better than this. This is a nonsense babbling argument. The guy shows concerns. Doesn't mean that it's happening, but perhaps should be watched. What's wrong with diligence?

[Green Lantern]

Come on aqua. You are usually better than this. This is a nonsense babbling argument. The guy shows concerns. Doesn't mean that it's happening, but perhaps should be watched. What's wrong with diligence?

Do you require diligence on their part? I think the Europeans are well capable of looking after themselves.

The EU started as a trading bloc. To this date they still do not have much power. If in the next hundred years the entity evolves into the United States of Europe, what, exactly, could be wrong with that?

[sukie]

Come on aqua. You are usually better than this. This is a nonsense babbling argument. The guy shows concerns. Doesn't mean that it's happening, but perhaps should be watched. What's wrong with diligence?

And who exactly should watch it? Should we fear Andora going Nuke?

[sukie]

I nominate Canada to be the watchdog on this one... any seconds?

[Green Lantern]

And who exactly should watch it? Should we fear Andora going Nuke?

San Marino has the longest life-span in the world for men.

Let's move there.

[sukie]

San Marino has the longest life-span in the world for men.

Let's move there.

Healthcare costs would be too big.

[Green Lantern]

Healthcare costs would be too big.

There are no healthcare costs. The whole country is the size of NYC. Their healthcare costs include smuggling into Italy and everyone being rich enough to afford great doctors.

[sukie]

I'm in. As long as I can get the NFL Sunday Ticket... Which I unfortunately doubt.

[Green Lantern]

I'm in. As long as I can get the NFL Sunday Ticket... Which I unfortunately doubt.

You can get it but the time difference involves you watching into the wee hours of the morning.

[sukie]

I don't think you can... Depends on what satellite is used for that transmission

[Green Lantern]

I don't think you can... Depends on what satellite is used for that transmission

Haven't you been watch NFL propaganda? American Football is growing as a spectator sport. I bet you can buy coverage in Europe.

[sukie]

Perhaps but I guess it would most likely be the ELAF Saturday Ticket.

[35Pete]

Do you require diligence on their part? I think the Europeans are well capable of looking after themselves.

The EU started as a trading bloc. To this date they still do not have much power. If in the next hundred years the entity evolves into the United States of Europe, what, exactly, could be wrong with that?

Nothing. They can decide what they want and it is none of our business. Unless their gov't did in fact become oppressive.

Nevertheless, we have some internal and external government abuses here that we need to address. Do you not agree?

[Green Lantern]

Nothing. They can decide what they want and it is none of our business. Unless their gov't did in fact become oppressive.

Nevertheless, we have some internal and external government abuses here that we need to address. Do you not agree?

"Here" as in the US or "here" as in the EU film you posted?

[35Pete]

"Here" as in the US or "here" as in the EU film you posted?

The US.

You know. Land of the spied on and home of the cowards?

Freedom = Trying not to kill you when you are tortured.

[deconstruction]

This seems pretty ridiculous to me. Its a big stretch from the European Union to the Soviet Union . . .

[35Pete]

This seems pretty ridiculous to me. Its a big stretch from the European Union to the Soviet Union . . .

I found the video interesting. If the Europeans were smart though they would practice strong oversight and keep a watchful eye.

Superpowers have a tendency to become arrogant, know what I mean?

[Green Lantern]

I found the video interesting. If the Europeans were smart though they would practice strong oversight and keep a watchful eye.

Superpowers have a tendency to become arrogant, know what I mean?

They are combining forces to match other trading-blocs. And they have realized, over recent history, that there is a culture of Europe.

[Gibby]

Pete, while this guy could be right: here me out here. I would actually like the EU to be a force like the USSR was. Why, well the following is a short list

1) A militarily strong EU would check American power and neocon ambition for global empire. Think about it if the EU was equal to us in military firepower you would have a body that could check Russian, American, and Chinese ambition.

2) A politically and economically powerful EU would be able to counter our global ambitions

3) This countebalance leads to rational and somewhat sane foreign policy which means no ****tard wars (started as get rich quick schemes) that serve no practical purpose and do far more harm than good

It may be evil, but it is a necessary evil.

[shiva2999]

I found the video interesting. If the Europeans were smart though they would practice strong oversight and keep a watchful eye.

Superpowers have a tendency to become arrogant, know what I mean?

I don't see the EU pushing anyone around.

Last time I was in Europe I thought it was a pretty ****ing cool place.

[35Pete]

Pete, while this guy could be right: here me out here. I would actually like the EU to be a force like the USSR was. Why, well the following is a short list

1) A militarily strong EU would check American power and neocon ambition for global empire. Think about it if the EU was equal to us in military firepower you would have a body that could check Russian, American, and Chinese ambition.

2) A politically and economically powerful EU would be able to counter our global ambitions

3) This countebalance leads to rational and somewhat sane foreign policy which means no ****tard wars (started as get rich quick schemes) that serve no practical purpose and do far more harm than good

It may be evil, but it is a necessary evil.
Understandable.

We are presently unchecked with global empire ambitions. No administration has made me feel more uncomfortable out of the country than this one.

But let's do our part to reign in this monster, shall we?

[Green Lantern]

Pete, while this guy could be right: here me out here. I would actually like the EU to be a force like the USSR was. Why, well the following is a short list

1) A militarily strong EU would check American power and neocon ambition for global empire. Think about it if the EU was equal to us in military firepower you would have a body that could check Russian, American, and Chinese ambition.

2) A politically and economically powerful EU would be able to counter our global ambitions

3) This countebalance leads to rational and somewhat sane foreign policy which means no ****tard wars (started as get rich quick schemes) that serve no practical purpose and do far more harm than good

It may be evil, but it is a necessary evil.


Europe would not, I think, arm itself in peacetime just to be a counterbalance to anyone else. They do not do that, historically.

[35Pete]

Europe would not, I think, arm itself in peacetime just to be a counterbalance to anyone else. They do not do that, historically.

HUH? I'll let Gibby the historian answer this one.

[Green Lantern]

HUH? I'll let Gibby the historian answer this one.

England has a large Navy, but it has about 50,000 in the Army. What do you need land forces for when you are not at war?

[Green Lantern]

HUH? I'll let Gibby the historian answer this one.

Try answering my PM...

[35Pete]

Try answering my PM...

What PM? I haven't received one from you in quite a while. Resend it please.

[Gibby]

Understandable.

We are presently unchecked with global empire ambitions. No administration has made me feel more uncomfortable out of the country than this one.

But let's do our part to reign in this monster, shall we?

I would prefer this, but revolutions always need help. Jefferson and co had France.

[Gibby]

England has a large Navy, but it has about 50,000 in the Army. What do you need land forces for when you are not at war?

deterrence.

[35Pete]

I would prefer this, but revolutions always need help. Jefferson and co had France.

Nah. Ballot box bro. Ballot box. That and bitching to your congressman and Senators until they are sick of the letters.

[Gibby]

Europe would not, I think, arm itself in peacetime just to be a counterbalance to anyone else. They do not do that, historically.

Sorry but this is wrong. Since the birth of the modern nation state (circa 1640) Europe has always had plans to arm during peace and always had a tendency to enter into heavily armed alliances. WWI is the best example of this and for this I will let a certain Captain Edmund BlackAdder talk about this:

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In the 19th Century, to prevent a repeat performance of Napoleon, Russia, Austria, and Prussia formed the Holy Alliance. In the mid 19th century, especially during the midst of the 1848 1st Internationale (revolution) Nicholas I was regarded negatively as the gendarme of Europe by France and England. Austria had a vast army and Prussia had a huge army and in the 17th through early 19th century was known as the army with a state. England's RN (royal navy) was the largest in the world and she had a large mostly colonial army. In the 17th century and most of the 18th century Louis XIV and Louis XV had large standing Armies. Its only in the aftermath of WWI, with its unprecedented level of casualties, that Europe has not had vast standing armies in peacetime. Before that time however the precedent was large armies in peace ready for a fight.

[Gibby]

Nah. Ballot box bro. Ballot box. That and bitching to your congressman and Senators until they are sick of the letters.

I agree, but lets arm just to make sure.