No correlation between test scores and education spending?

[coryjd]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/24/usa.education.spending.reut/index.html

In this article, a statement is made saying that no correlation has been found between the amount spent per student and the success of test scores.

"Students in northeastern and northern states tend to perform better on standardized tests than students in southern and southwestern states. But experts say the correlation between spending and testing performance is not strong."

Interesting accusation. I'd like to hear their reasoning then, for lower test scores, where spending per student is significantly lower.

[pabstman]

I've thought the same thing for a while. I understand where class size may have an impact but all you hear from politicians and educators is that we don't spend enough.

[nehemiah]

that's b/c "test scores" are a truly shitty way of measuring educational effectiveness.

[:::]

[Gibby]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/24/usa.education.spending.reut/index.html

In this article, a statement is made saying that no correlation has been found between the amount spent per student and the success of test scores.

"Students in northeastern and northern states tend to perform better on standardized tests than students in southern and southwestern states. But experts say the correlation between spending and testing performance is not strong."

Interesting accusation. I'd like to hear their reasoning then, for lower test scores, where spending per student is significantly lower.

The point is home. Usually in more economically depressed regions and areas the parents are too damn busy making a living to invest substantial time in aiding their children in academic pursuits. Now rducation is not necessarily dollar specific as I went to KCMSD's cash starved Lincoln Academy. Central, Southeast, Westport, Paseo, Van Horn, and Northeast all received a lot more money than Lincoln. They had somewhat modern facilities with up to date computers, new textbooks, and buildings that were up to code. Lincoln was a firetrap. The roof leaked, the gym floor was buckled due to rain water. According to many of the civics books the president was Gerald Ford while the history books were discussing (as a current event) the Iran Hostage situation. Keep in mind that I was in high school in the late Clinton/early Bush II era. The math books were held together by an assortment of rubber bands, duct tape, and glue. We froze in the winter and melted in the early fall and late spring. The flagship school, keep in mind we were and still are Kansas City Missouri School District's best school and our test scores constantly surpass many of the suburban schools in the Kansas City Metro area and far exceed any of the other KCMSD high schools and middle schools.

Oh yeah and guess what most of our graduates go on to some type of higher education. In my class 95% percent of us went on to get further education. 85% went on to get at least an associates degree and some 71% have earned -or are in the process of getting- their four year degree. To my knowledge at least 1/3 of my class is working on some type of grad degree. Did I mention that Lincoln's dropout rate has been less than 1 % for the past decade?

Pretty good production for an economic log cabin. The reason Lincoln students are far superior to their counterparts in other KCMSD schools (not to mention those in the cash rich suburbs) is because the school has demanding courses. The families of many of the students care about their children reaching their full academic potential and the teachers actually give a shit. For a child to succeed, yes there are exceptions to this, I feel that you need to have teachers that are competent and care for the students and you must have parents who encourage their children to succeed and who instill in their students a desire to learn.

[nehemiah]

if money doesn't matter - why do andover and exeter cost 40k a year?

:dunno:

[coryjd]

that's b/c "test scores" are a truly shitty way of measuring educational effectiveness.

[:::]

While it is unfortunate that not all students gain the most through testing, unfortunately for some, we live in a society based on merit.

What do you propose Neh - for these students that "can't" test? Or - what do you propose the state governments look at when funding a school district?

[nehemiah]

While it is unfortunate that not all students gain the most through testing, unfortunately for some, we live in a society based on merit.

What do you propose Neh - for these students that "can't" test? Or - what do you propose the state governments look at when funding a school district?i propose they: go to school to learn. learn to be inquisitive. enjoy going to school. play a sport. play an instrument. learn how to get along with other kids.

they should NOT go to school to learn how to take some stupid test. you can take the "testing" and shove it up a neo-con's ass.

the whole thing about meritocracy is horseshit, btw.

[TRIPLE P]

i propose they: go to school to learn. learn to be inquisitive. enjoy going to school. play a sport. play an instrument. learn how to get along with other kids.

they should NOT go to school to learn how to take some stupid test. you can take the "testing" and shove it up a neo-con's ass.

the whole thing about meritocracy is horseshit, btw.

Which is exactly what i did in school.... I never learned anything i didn't want to. Still don't.

Schools blow. Teacher are shitty.

[coryjd]

i propose they: go to school to learn. learn to be inquisitive. enjoy going to school. play a sport. play an instrument. learn how to get along with other kids.
they should NOT go to school to learn how to take some stupid test. you can take the "testing" and shove it up a neo-con's ass.

the whole thing about meritocracy is horseshit, btw.

Those are great points! That is EXACTLY what school is about. But again, reality comes into play here. Unfortunately, much of our society is based on merit, and it's extremely difficult to get into college to further your education without good test scores. Not saying that I agree with this, but what other solution is there?

[35Pete]

i propose they: go to school to learn. learn to be inquisitive. enjoy going to school. play a sport. play an instrument. learn how to get along with other kids.

they should NOT go to school to learn how to take some stupid test. you can take the "testing" and shove it up a neo-con's ass.

the whole thing about meritocracy is horseshit, btw.

Nehe. What's wrong with reward based on merit? :hmm:

[coryjd]

Which is exactly what i did in school.... I never learned anything i didn't want to. Still don't.

Schools blow. Teacher are shitty.

What is it that you do Triple?

[coryjd]

Which is exactly what i did in school.... I never learned anything i didn't want to. Still don't.

Schools blow. Teacher are shitty.

Do you have a GRE, Regents, any education beyond high school?

[35Pete]

What is it that you do Triple?

He yells at people at takes 3 martini lunches. :D

[coryjd]

i propose they: go to school to learn. learn to be inquisitive. enjoy going to school. play a sport. play an instrument. learn how to get along with other kids.

they should NOT go to school to learn how to take some stupid test. you can take the "testing" and shove it up a neo-con's ass.

the whole thing about meritocracy is horseshit, btw.

And oh yeah - if you're going to make accussations, it's good to back them up, right?

[C Darwin]

There is a new study out that that hypothesizes there might be a correlation between test scores and IQ.

[nehemiah]

IQ is a horrible way to measure "intelligence".

[TRIPLE P]

Do you have a GRE, Regents, any education beyond high school?

Yup.

College grad.

[nehemiah]

And oh yeah - if you're going to make accussations, it's good to back them up, right?you just misused the word "accusation".

[nehemiah]

Do you have a GRE, Regents, any education beyond high school?i never did anything in school either. and i have tons of degrees.

testing is ****ing stupid.

[coryjd]

Yup.

College grad.

So no teacher helped you gain that success???

[nehemiah]

Nehe. What's wrong with reward based on merit? :hmm:nothing.

unfortunately, the school is system is NOT based on merit.

[coryjd]

i never did anything in school either. and i have tons of degrees.

testing is ****ing stupid.

True as that may be, the only reason you have the degrees is because of testing.

FACT.

[coryjd]

you just misused the word "accusation".

You claiming meritocracy is horseshit is indeed an accusation.

[coryjd]

Still waiting for all the nay-sayers to give me a better way to measure success in a school system.....

Do we just start handing out diplomas to everyone now???

[Gibby]

IQ is a horrible way to measure "intelligence".

Neh you should embrace your IQ of 67. There is nothing to be ashamed of, after all you do have a large penis size or so you say. :D

[nehemiah]

True as that may be, the only reason you have the degrees is because of testing.

FACT.not true in the least.

[TRIPLE P]

What is it that you do Triple?

I review and approve all the general securites and annuities business for a 3 state area for one of the 120 biggest companies in the world....

[nehemiah]

You claiming meritocracy is horseshit is indeed an accusation.accusations must have a target.

since i made an assertion with no target - it's NOT an accusation.

maybe you should get tested some more. :D

[coryjd]

not true in the least.

Would you care to offer more, or do you like it when people have to keep asking?

I'd love to hear what type of school system you went through. haha

[nehemiah]

Neh you should embrace your IQ of 67. There is nothing to be ashamed of, after all you do have a large penis size or so you say. :Di have a genius IQ.

you also forgot to mention that i am extremely good looking.

i am the true triple threat.

[TRIPLE P]

Still waiting for all the nay-sayers to give me a better way to measure success in a school system.....

Do we just start handing out diplomas to everyone now???

Why do we need a measure?

[nehemiah]

Would you care to offer more, or do you like it when people have to keep asking?

I'd love to hear what type of school system you went through. hahawhich one? high school, college, or the 2 graduate schools?

[coryjd]

accusations must have a target.

since i made an assertion with no target - it's NOT an accusation.

maybe you should get tested some more. :D

I believe your target was meritocracy and the projectile was horseshit. You should be use to this, it's what comes out of your mouth on daily basis.

But yet, still waiting for your proposed thoughts instead of testing.

(putting on protective shield to avoid horseshit from being splattered in my face.)

...

[coryjd]

which one? high school, college, or the 2 graduate schools?

Ah jeez - lets start with high school. No testing there huh?

[coryjd]

Why do we need a measure?

How do you decide who passes and who fails?

[coryjd]

Why do we need a measure?

You can't honestly believe that everyone should just be cycled through the school system, can you? That's it's just an event, rather a process?

[TRIPLE P]

You can't honestly believe that everyone should just be cycled through the school system, can you? That's it's just an event, rather a process?

I learned more on my own then I ever learned in school. A place of learning should be a competition... if teachers, in genral, were competant they would know who is learning and who is understanding simply by classroom dialogue...

Piles of dittos, Multiple choice tests, 3 line essays, and math problems aren't learning....that shit is worthless.

[nehemiah]

Ah jeez - lets start with high school. No testing there huh?your reductionism is boring.

of course, some tests are useful.

however - when the ONLY measure of a high school is the correlation b/t testing and money, then something is dramatically wrong.

btw, as to your other boring complaint about my posts, i already gave you a list of other things that schools can do instead of testing. you need a reading comprehension test.

[Shama-Lama Ding Dong]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/24/usa.education.spending.reut/index.html

In this article, a statement is made saying that no correlation has been found between the amount spent per student and the success of test scores.

"Students in northeastern and northern states tend to perform better on standardized tests than students in southern and southwestern states. But experts say the correlation between spending and testing performance is not strong."

Interesting accusation. I'd like to hear their reasoning then, for lower test scores, where spending per student is significantly lower.

This is great news. I'd hate to think we can start cutting funding because money won't help test scores, but that's probably going to be the conclusion, not that test scores are not the faithful measurement of a good education. Most people who want a good education and have the money to pay for it opt to pay for it. I have never heard of someone going on the cheap because of the test results, or determining dollar per standard deviation to determine effectiveness ....

[Gibby]

i have a genius IQ.



hmmm, then perhaps IQ isn't a good measurement of intelligence after all. :D

[Gibby]

This is great news. I'd hate to think we can start cutting funding because money won't help test scores, but that's probably going to be the conclusion, not that test scores are not the faithful measurement of a good education. Most people who want a good education and have the money to pay for it opt to pay for it. I have never heard of someone going on the cheap because of the test results, or determining dollar per standard deviation to determine effectiveness ....

two sheps? Oh Jesus.

[Shama-Lama Ding Dong]

two sheps? Oh Jesus.

That's Mr. Oh Jesus to you.

[Gibby]

That's Mr. Oh Jesus to you.

and they are both arrogant. :groan:

[LVBillsfan]

Still waiting for all the nay-sayers to give me a better way to measure success in a school system.....

Do we just start handing out diplomas to everyone now???

Portfolio assessments work very well. Student work is added to the protfolio as they go through school. The collection of work demonstrates student growth. These are harder to assess but they provide a more realistic picture in terms of growth.

[35Pete]

nothing.

unfortunately, the school is system is NOT based on merit.

What do you mean? (I agree but probably for a different reason(s) ).

[Green Lantern]

Portfolio assessments work very well. Student work is added to the protfolio as they go through school. The collection of work demonstrates student growth. These are harder to assess but they provide a more realistic picture in terms of growth.


They are subjective and cannot be captured in a data pool, so they are useless to politicians.

[sukie]

So who's spending the cash? The Lunch Lady?

[C Darwin]

Boy, If there was a leader who was smart enough to bring the US to a voucher system, we would be all set.

[Green Lantern]

Boy, If there was a leader who was smart enough to bring the US to a voucher system, we would be all set.

Oh lord.