Armored vehicle use in Beirut, er Pittsburgh...

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Armored vehicles' rising use by police raises community concerns

By RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI

The Associated Press

PITTSBURGH — After six people were shot in the city's Homewood neighborhood in less than 24 hours, Pittsburgh police rolled in with a 20-ton armored truck with a blast-resistant body, armored rotating roof hatch and gunports.

No guns or drugs were seized and no arrests made during the sweep in the $250,000 armored vehicle, paid for with Homeland Security money. But the show of force sent a message.

Whether it was the right message is a matter of debate.

With scores of police agencies large and small buying armored vehicles at Homeland Security expense, some criminal-justice experts warn that their use in fighting everyday crime could do more harm than good and represents a post-Sept. 11 militaristic turn away from the more cooperative community-policing approach promoted in the 1990s.

When the armored truck moved through the Homewood neighborhood late last year, people came out of their homes to take a look. Some were offended.

"This is really the containment of crime, not the elimination, because to eliminate it you have to address some of the social problems," said Rashad Byrdsong, a community activist.

Law-enforcement agencies say the growing use of the vehicles helps ensure police have the tools they need to deal with hostage situations, heavy gunfire and acts of terrorism.

But police are also putting the equipment to more routine use, such as the delivering of warrants to suspects believed to be armed.

"We live on being prepared for 'what if?' " said Pittsburgh Sgt. Barry Budd, a member of the SWAT team.

Critics say the appearance of armored vehicles in high-crime neighborhoods may only increase tensions by making residents feel as if they are under siege.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003699268_police09.html

[35Pete]

It's conditioning of the public for future domestic actions Doug. I'm not kidding either.

[Green Lantern]

Armored vehicles' rising use by police raises community concerns

By RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI

The Associated Press

PITTSBURGH — After six people were shot in the city's Homewood neighborhood in less than 24 hours, Pittsburgh police rolled in with a 20-ton armored truck with a blast-resistant body, armored rotating roof hatch and gunports.

No guns or drugs were seized and no arrests made during the sweep in the $250,000 armored vehicle, paid for with Homeland Security money. But the show of force sent a message.

Whether it was the right message is a matter of debate.

With scores of police agencies large and small buying armored vehicles at Homeland Security expense, some criminal-justice experts warn that their use in fighting everyday crime could do more harm than good and represents a post-Sept. 11 militaristic turn away from the more cooperative community-policing approach promoted in the 1990s.

When the armored truck moved through the Homewood neighborhood late last year, people came out of their homes to take a look. Some were offended.

"This is really the containment of crime, not the elimination, because to eliminate it you have to address some of the social problems," said Rashad Byrdsong, a community activist.

Law-enforcement agencies say the growing use of the vehicles helps ensure police have the tools they need to deal with hostage situations, heavy gunfire and acts of terrorism.

But police are also putting the equipment to more routine use, such as the delivering of warrants to suspects believed to be armed.

"We live on being prepared for 'what if?' " said Pittsburgh Sgt. Barry Budd, a member of the SWAT team.

Critics say the appearance of armored vehicles in high-crime neighborhoods may only increase tensions by making residents feel as if they are under siege.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003699268_police09.html

My sensei was asked by a 14 year old what if...? What if a guy did this? What if a guy did that?

And after about ten minutes of this and the sensei coming up with a whole bunch of things he could do to a fellow combatant the kid said, what if a 300 lbs. 6'6" guy attacked you?

My sensei said, "he'd beat me up."

The kid was crestfallen.

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Ramit Plushnick-Masti :D

[35Pete]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/35Pete/flu1.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/35Pete/flu2.jpg

DoD predicting the evil doers might unleash a deadly flu? Wow, I knew anthrax was easy to produce but how'd these primitives get CDC capabilities?

1. Scare tactic
2. Look at the soldiers. Wow. People getting used to them patrolling the streets. Look out draft.

BTW. These screen shots were taken yesterday. Army psyops on full prep mode?

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Pussy Comatose

[coryjd]

Good for the city of Pittsburgh! It's about time someone sets an example and uses scare tactics to intimidate. I wish more of this was done in the public school setting (obviously not the armored vehicle!). The message was sent loud clear, no harm was done, no one was injured, so it seems like a win-win to me!!

[TRIPLE P]

Good for the city of Pittsburgh! It's about time someone sets an example and uses scare tactics to intimidate. I wish more of this was done in the public school setting (obviously not the armored vehicle!). The message was sent loud clear, no harm was done, no one was injured, so it seems like a win-win to me!!


Yeah...good point...

ter·ror·ism (tr-rzm)

NOUN:

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.


http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/terrorism

[35Pete]

Yeah...good point... Oh wait, thats called terrorism.

What's this tough guy stuff? Man. I used to partake in this. I'll tell you why. Programming. Strong party loyalists (on both sides) are programmed. I never thought that I was. I'm sure he doesn't either.

[Lucidvizion]

What's this tough guy stuff? Man. I used to partake in this. I'll tell you why. Programming. Strong party loyalists (on both sides) are programmed. I never thought that I was. I'm sure he doesn't either.

Nope. You've turned into a sackless pussy for not having strong, unyielding partisan convictions. :rolleyes2

[coryjd]

Yeah...good point...

ter·ror·ism (tr-rzm)

NOUN:

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.


http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/terrorism

So if your boss comes and threatens to fire you and make your life miserable if you don't get your act together, do you consider THAT terrorism? Isn't it ideological beliefs that every one must do their best for their employer?

Accountability:
–noun 1. the state of being accountable, liable, or answerable.

[shiva2999]

So if your boss comes and threatens to fire you and make your life miserable if you don't get your act together, do you consider THAT terrorism? Isn't it ideological beliefs that every one must do their best for their employer?

Accountability:
–noun 1. the state of being accountable, liable, or answerable.

:rofl:

I doubt that threatening to fire you qualifies as force or violence, even in your ultra-pc world.

[nehemiah]

what a waste of money.

[coryjd]

:rofl:

I doubt that threatening to fire you qualifies as force or violence, even in your ultra-pc world.

Sure it is. Those are forcing idealistic beliefs onto someone forcing emotional and professional discomfort. Just as those cops in Pittsburgh simply parked the armored vehicle in a neighborhood. They did not impose it upon anyone or use it to force themselves upon anyone. It was simply a 'statement.'

In NO WAY does this constitute terrorism!

[coryjd]

what a waste of money.

Waste of money? Yes! For sure.

But terrorism? No way in hell!

[nehemiah]

it's absolutely govt sponsored terrorism.

No guns or drugs were seized and no arrests made during the sweep...

[coryjd]

it's absolutely govt sponsored terrorism.

No guns or drugs were seized and no arrests made during the sweep...

So when cops patrol now, they MUST make an arrest or seize something illegal in order for their presence to be justified?

Would it have been ok if 20 patrol cars cruised down the street together, instead of the armored vehicle?

[nehemiah]

So when cops patrol now, they MUST make an arrest or seize something illegal in order for their presence to be justified?

Would it have been ok if 20 patrol cars cruised down the street together, instead of the armored vehicle?logical fallacy.

[shiva2999]

Sure it is. Those are forcing idealistic beliefs onto someone forcing emotional and professional discomfort.

Huh?

What does this have to do with your boss threatening to fire you?

Don't be ridiculous.

[Gibby]

It's conditioning of the public for future domestic actions Doug. I'm not kidding either.

Sad precedent and I do not like it at all.

[coryjd]

logical fallacy.

No seriously, do you have an answer to my questions?

[35Pete]

So when cops patrol now, they MUST make an arrest or seize something illegal in order for their presence to be justified?

Would it have been ok if 20 patrol cars cruised down the street together, instead of the armored vehicle?

Does the police having armored cars give you a throbbing woody?

Like being a tough guy vicariously through the thugs while they hunt down criminals and evil doers?

We have to prepare for a "what-if situation" says the cop. Geez. I'd think a Bradley fighting vehicle might be even better, don't you think?

Why not mount a .50 cal on that armoured vehicle? It would stop a LOT of terrorists. Ohh...that military piece of equipment was paid for by the Dept. of Homeland Security. How bout that?

"Pat pat" You're such a good citizen. No snooping on you!

[nehemiah]

No seriously, do you have an answer to my questions?i do have answers.

but they are, ipso facto, OFF topic b/c you have committed a logical faux pas.