Parental permission for Sex Ed?

[coryjd]

Sex Education around the country has been scrutinized in recent years, but Kansas just took what seems like a step backwards in sex education.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/09/kansas.sex.ed.ap/index.html

In a society where more and more teens are becoming pregnant, shouldn't we divert our efforts away from the "emphasize" of abstinence, and teach more about birth control, HIV and STD prevention?

And then, parental permission? That's absurd.

[TRIPLE P]

There was parental permission when I was in elemtary school in West Seneca.....

[Gibby]

There should always be parental permission.

[gilchristfan]

There was parental permission when I was in elemtary school in West Seneca.....

I think there was when I was in high school at Lancaster too.

Anyways, the article gave a pretty good description of what happened with the Kansas State Board of Education.

A few nutcases got elected to form a majority on the Board. They were the ones that pushed to take evolution from the curriculum, and hired a superintendent that had no experience as an educator. (He's a lawyer and mostly a conservative writer).

Some of the nutcases got voted out of office, they lost their majority, and now the new board is undoing everything the old one set up.

The teachers I know didn't really care, they were ignoring the old Board anyways.

[anEinherjer]

Never mind the FACT that teen preg. rates are steadily decreasing (Google is your friend)

http://www.google.com/search?q=teen+pregnancy+rates%2C+US&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[Crinoline]

Kids today don't want their parents involved in anything they do. Yet when they screw up, who are the first people they call for help?

[Vessel17]

I'm really in favor of parental permission not just for Sex Ed. but for everything. I realize that it takes a village to raise a child. But I don't like the government telling people how and what to teach their kids. Parents need to have final say when it comes to a kid's education.

Now I realize taking that to an extreme would lead to generational KKK members. But if you take the opposite to the extreme we have "1984." I'd rather us stay closer to the middle with the parents getting to decide how to raise their child.

[Vessel17]

In a society where more and more teens are becoming pregnant, shouldn't we divert our efforts away from the "emphasize" of abstinence, and teach more about birth control, HIV and STD prevention?

I think we have drawn a false dichotomy. I have never understood why we can't teach kids the value of abstinence while at the same time teaching them about safe sex.

[mikgaes]

Sex Education around the country has been scrutinized in recent years, but Kansas just took what seems like a step backwards in sex education.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/09/kansas.sex.ed.ap/index.html

In a society where more and more teens are becoming pregnant, shouldn't we divert our efforts away from the "emphasize" of abstinence, and teach more about birth control, HIV and STD prevention?

And then, parental permission? That's absurd.

Seems like it took a step forward. You want to teach your kid creationism then send him to Catholic School. I am Catholic, but I'm also smarter than that. And parental permission should be a must. Whoever thinks the steps taken in that linked article are backwards must be backwards themselves.

[coryjd]

I think we have drawn a false dichotomy. I have never understood why we can't teach kids the value of abstinence while at the same time teaching them about safe sex.

But isn't it the same as trying to tell kids to NOT drink? We are all nieve to think they're never going to, so instead - resources have switched to teaching kids to NOT drink AND drive. Same thing with sex, we all know they're going to - so why not teach them how to do it safely, with protection?

We all know the old adage that when you tell a kid NOT to do something, they're going to turn right around and do it.

Preventive measures should be emphasized more.

[Vessel17]

But isn't it the same as trying to tell kids to NOT drink? We are all nieve to think they're never going to, so instead - resources have switched to teaching kids to NOT drink AND drive. Same thing with sex, we all know they're going to - so why not teach them how to do it safely, with protection?

We all know the old adage that when you tell a kid NOT to do something, they're going to turn right around and do it.

Preventive measures should be emphasized more.

I think your attitude is defeatist. I work with kids and am finding that many are staying virgins. Now you don't see them on MTV or much in the media so it seems like they don't exist, but they do. I really believe that abstinence is ideal, think how many issues would be solved if people only practiced sex w/ their spouse. Abortion is suddenly a bottom-tier issue (meaning Bush wouldn't have been elected), divorce rates plummet, STD's are virtually eliminated. Maybe I'm idealistic, but let's keep teaching the ideal.

Preventative measures should be emphasized more than they currently are, but at a 50/50 w/ abstinence.

[г]

Parental permission for Sex, Ed?

I would think that if Ed's an adult, he can make his own decisions about sex...

[coryjd]

I think your attitude is defeatist. I work with kids and am finding that many are staying virgins. Now you don't see them on MTV or much in the media so it seems like they don't exist, but they do. I really believe that abstinence is ideal, think how many issues would be solved if people only practiced sex w/ their spouse. Abortion is suddenly a bottom-tier issue (meaning Bush wouldn't have been elected), divorce rates plummet, STD's are virtually eliminated. Maybe I'm idealistic, but let's keep teaching the ideal.

Preventative measures should be emphasized more than they currently are, but at a 50/50 w/ abstinence.

You are correct Vessel. Being ideal would be great, but I think the description you're giving isn't ideal. What type of school do you work/teach in? I too, teach in a public school, and last year taught in one where I had 3 middle school girls that were pregnant in the same class. And that was only ONE of my classes, and a small percentage of the school.

So yes, while it is great to teach abstinence, it is not realistic, and much more emphasis should be placed on educating rather than preaching.

[coryjd]

I would think that if Ed's an adult, he can make his own decisions about sex...

Great manipulation of a quote.

[Vessel17]

So yes, while it is great to teach abstinence, it is not realistic, and much more emphasis should be placed on educating rather than preaching.

Why is telling kids reasons why they should abstain from sex preaching and telling them why they should use condoms teaching?

[TRIPLE P]

Why is telling kids reasons why they should abstain from sex preaching and telling them why they should use condoms teaching?

They don't teach them why...they teach them how.

They teach what condoms do, and what diseases are....

Its not about telling to do something or not to do something.... its about teaching them the effect of thier choices, and how to make the safest choices possible....

I've never been in a sex ed class where they didn't lead with

"Abstiniance is the only 100% safe choice"

They hammered that home... that being said, its also the least fun...

[Vessel17]

They don't teach them why...they teach them how.

They teach what condoms do, and what diseases are....

I'm still missing why different terms are applied to promoting abstinence and promoting contraceptives. Could you clarify?

[Brock]

Why is telling kids reasons why they should abstain from sex preaching and telling them why they should use condoms teaching?

Because America's morals, integrity, and value systems have been severely corrupted. Instead of holding people accountable for their actions, it is much easier to throw a band aid on the problem as opposed to bringing out the infection.

It is not uncommon to have two or three 8th grade girls pregnant in one classroom. What is most disturbing is that their is no embarassment, shame or guilt exhibited by the students or the parents of these children for that matter.

When we as adults send the message to children that it is ok to have sex just protect yourself. We are in fact saying, you are an adult who can effectively cope with the physical and emotional responsibilities associated with being sexually active.

The fact is these children are no where near ready to deal with this responsibility. Which in turn empowers and enables students to act as adults. Essentually rendering anyone such as parents, teachers, and police officers to hold children responsible powerless.

Our expectations for American youth have been significantly lowered. This creates alot of anymosity, anger, confusion and frustration in regards to how teenagers view adults.

Unless adults wake up and start acting like adults, this increasing phenomena will sadly continue.

[Vessel17]

I really agree w/ you Brock. I think part of abstinence education is showing kids that there is a higher standard that they can try to live up to.

[TRIPLE P]

I'm still missing why different terms are applied to promoting abstinence and promoting contraceptives. Could you clarify?

i've not had any experiance in the classes except my own.... but I'v eonly ever heard contraceptioves as a suggestions "if" you're going to have sex.....

Ultimately, IMO, if you're going to obstain from sex before marriage that is something that is instilled in you long before sex ed class.....

There is nothing more inate than sexual desire....you're gonna try to have sex...unless, in your mind, your soul depends on it....

[TRIPLE P]

Because America's morals, integrity, and value systems have been severely corrupted. Instead of holding people accountable for their actions, it is much easier to throw a band aid on the problem as opposed to bringing out the infection.

It is not uncommon to have two or three 8th grade girls pregnant in one classroom. What is most disturbing is that their is no embarassment, shame or guilt exhibited by the students or the parents of these children for that matter.

When we as adults send the message to children that it is ok to have sex just protect yourself. We are in fact saying, you are an adult who can effectively cope with the physical and emotional responsibilities associated with being sexually active.

The fact is these children are no where near ready to deal with this responsibility. Which in turn empowers and enables students to act as adults. Essentually rendering anyone such as parents, teachers, and police officers to hold children responsible powerless.

Our expectations for American youth have been significantly lowered. This creates alot of anymosity, anger, confusion and frustration in regards to how teenagers view adults.

Unless adults wake up and start acting like adults, this increasing phenomena will sadly continue.

Wasn't having kids at 13-14 the nrom 150 years ago?

Do you honestly think teenage girls weren't having kids 50 years ago? They were, they were just hidden, sent away, or had abortions in secret...they were shamed and not allowed to live thier lives normally...simply fordoing something that comes completly naturally.....

Why do you think God...in all his wisdom... made boys and girls able to create children at a young age if he didn't want it happening?

[coryjd]

I really agree w/ you Brock. I think part of abstinence education is showing kids that there is a higher standard that they can try to live up to.

Brock and Vessel - you bring up great points, but that is just not how the average kid thinks these days. As one of you mentioned, gone are the days of morals and ethics. Here are the days of preventive measures and backstepping to cover our tracks and make up for someone's mistake.

Promoting abstinence is great, but you CAN NOT teach it! You can however, as WXP mentioned, teach HOW to protect yourself and your partner. THIS is why much more emphasis needs to be placed on prevention.

Plain and simple, kids are going to do whatever they want to do. Why not give them the tools to protect themselves? Would you send your kid out to drive without a properly inspected car, that is safest for the kid? Nope, and the same goes here.

[Vessel17]

i've not had any experiance in the classes except my own.... but I'v eonly ever heard contraceptioves as a suggestions "if" you're going to have sex..... my experience was more "when" you have sex you should do this... Perhaps the Gym teachers aren't the best to teach this subject. (-: I'm glad that your class was presented the way it was, I hope most classes are.

Ultimately, IMO, if you're going to obstain from sex before marriage that is something that is instilled in you long before sex ed class..... good point

There is nothing more inate than sexual desire....you're gonna try to have sex...unless, in your mind, your soul depends on it.... Well, assuming you aren't using a hyperbole here, I would say that you're overrating the sex drive of a person a bit. There are probably some things that are more innate i.e. eating, social relationships, etc. But I might be looking too far into what you said.

I think though that there are people who want to be abstinent from sex until marriage for more than just religious reasons. Hopefully in Sex Ed. they tell kids that contraceptives don't always work, I'm actually living proof of that fact. The only full-proof way of avoiding pregnancy/std's is abstinence. For some that is very persuasive and as I stated above I think sex w/in marriage or sex w/ one person is the ideal so I still think both should be taught.

Still don't understand why telling kids that abstaining from sex is "preaching" while talking about contraceptives is "teaching" though.

[TRIPLE P]

my experience was more "when" you have sex you should do this... Perhaps the Gym teachers aren't the best to teach this subject. (-: I'm glad that your class was presented the way it was, I hope most classes are.

good point

Well, assuming you aren't using a hyperbole here, I would say that you're overrating the sex drive of a person a bit. There are probably some things that are more innate i.e. eating, social relationships, etc. But I might be looking too far into what you said.

I think though that there are people who want to be abstinent from sex until marriage for more than just religious reasons. Hopefully in Sex Ed. they tell kids that contraceptives don't always work, I'm actually living proof of that fact. The only full-proof way of avoiding pregnancy/std's is abstinence. For some that is very persuasive and as I stated above I think sex w/in marriage or sex w/ one person is the ideal so I still think both should be taught.

Still don't understand why telling kids that abstaining from sex is "preaching" while talking about contraceptives is "teaching" though.


I'm of the belief that sex drives everything we do on some level...eating to stay alive to procreate....working to make money to get the best female to procreate with...creating a social network to meet with and show off for said females....not even consciously alot of the time...but it drives us.... and why wouldn't it...its our main purpose...not sex...but procreation...thats why sex is so awesome...we're wired to want to do it because if it sucked we wouldn't want to do it as much and we wouldn't procreat that much...more babies is better for humanity...some live, some die...but in the end the best babies from the best males and females survive....at least thats what I belieev....

In regards to preach vs teach...its just sementics....it depends on whos saying it as to how it will come out...

We didn't have gym teachers...we had the nurse...

[mighty peace warrior]

i had to sign a release for my son to attend sex ed in middle school this year. he did NOT want to go..but he is a bit girl crazed so off he went

[Brock]

Wasn't having kids at 13-14 the nrom 150 years ago?

Do you honestly think teenage girls weren't having kids 50 years ago? They were, they were just hidden, sent away, or had abortions in secret...they were shamed and not allowed to live thier lives normally...simply fordoing something that comes completly naturally.....

Why do you think God...in all his wisdom... made boys and girls able to create children at a young age if he didn't want it happening?

People were considered grown up, because they had to be. Today people say the human brain isn't fully developed until the age of 26. Since people alledgedly arent grown up at this age and adulthood is further delayed, reinforces the concept of adults having to step in and teach abstinance.

Furthermore, 50 years ago children were brought up to serve their parents and work on the farm. They had chores, raised younger siblings, and had responsibilities. By the time they were 14, most had the experience needed to raise children.

Unfortunately by today's standards, parents now serve their children and do not allow opportunity's for them to grow into adults. Many youth today suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, where the sun sets and shines on them, thus rendering them incapable of feeling for or taking care of others.

The philosophy of "old enough to play, old enough to pay" no longer exists. We now offer more fixes to these problems. Abortions, the morning after pill, adoption, welfare, and my personal favorite parents raising their grandchildren.

Years ago the stakes were higher, outs were limited. If you got pregnant, you got married. Today 78% of african-american children are born out of wedlock. In 1965 this figure was 24% and by the 90s it was 64%. For whites this figure is at 40%, in the 90's 24% and in 1965 3%.

What this tells us is that marriage is no longer held in such high regards. And that we are free to engage in sexual activity whenever we want, without fear of consequence or being in a marriage that may be undesirable.

If I was a teenager in today's society, I would be promiscuous to. I can't be held accountable. And people won't expect me to do the right thing. Either abstain, get married, have a meaningful relationship with an exclusive person, a spiritual relationship with a higher power, or public ridicule. These concepts work for me, because they at the very least get people to think twice about engaging in frivilous and unprotected sex.

[coryjd]

People were considered grown up, because they had to be. Today people say the human brain isn't fully developed until the age of 26. Since people alledgedly arent grown up at this age and adulthood is further delayed, reinforces the concept of adults having to step in and teach abstinance.

Furthermore, 50 years ago children were brought up to serve their parents and work on the farm. They had chores, raised younger siblings, and had responsibilities. By the time they were 14, most had the experience needed to raise children.

Unfortunately by today's standards, parents now serve their children and do not allow opportunity's for them to grow into adults. Many youth today suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, where the sun sets and shines on them, thus rendering them incapable of feeling for or taking care of others.

The philosophy of "old enough to play, old enough to pay" no longer exists. We now offer more fixes to these problems. Abortions, the morning after pill, adoption, welfare, and my personal favorite parents raising their grandchildren.

Years ago the stakes were higher, outs were limited. If you got pregnant, you got married. Today 78% of african-american children are born out of wedlock. In 1965 this figure was 24% and by the 90s it was 64%. For whites this figure is at 40%, in the 90's 24% and in 1965 3%.

What this tells us is that marriage is no longer held in such high regards. And that we are free to engage in sexual activity whenever we want, without fear of consequence or being in a marriage that may be undesirable.

If I was a teenager in today's society, I would be promiscuous to. I can't be held accountable. And people won't expect me to do the right thing. Either abstain, get married, have a meaningful relationship with an exclusive person, a spiritual relationship with a higher power, or public ridicule. These concepts work for me, because they at the very least get people to think twice about engaging in frivilous and unprotected sex.


Brock - great points! I 110% agree with you on everything you said, except that I don't think we can 'teach' abstinence. As WXP said, we are born "wanting/needing" to have sex. And as he mentioned, much of what I do is so that I can get home to have that sex!! :n4clapping:

However, as you mentioned, because of our society and the "outs" they have created for children, we should do the children a favor and also teach them how to protect themselves and others.

I liked your comment about children growing up. You can see how twisted our society is, because studies also show that children are "growing up faster" now, more so than in the past. Thus the term - "tweens." But, what does society consider growing up? You are most definitely correct in saying today's definition of growing up does not include raising and caring for a child in the appropriate manner.

[gilchristfan]

People were considered grown up, because they had to be. Today people say the human brain isn't fully developed until the age of 26. Since people alledgedly arent grown up at this age and adulthood is further delayed, reinforces the concept of adults having to step in and teach abstinance.

Furthermore, 50 years ago children were brought up to serve their parents and work on the farm. They had chores, raised younger siblings, and had responsibilities. By the time they were 14, most had the experience needed to raise children.

Unfortunately by today's standards, parents now serve their children and do not allow opportunity's for them to grow into adults. Many youth today suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, where the sun sets and shines on them, thus rendering them incapable of feeling for or taking care of others.

The philosophy of "old enough to play, old enough to pay" no longer exists. We now offer more fixes to these problems. Abortions, the morning after pill, adoption, welfare, and my personal favorite parents raising their grandchildren.

Years ago the stakes were higher, outs were limited. If you got pregnant, you got married. Today 78% of african-american children are born out of wedlock. In 1965 this figure was 24% and by the 90s it was 64%. For whites this figure is at 40%, in the 90's 24% and in 1965 3%.

What this tells us is that marriage is no longer held in such high regards. And that we are free to engage in sexual activity whenever we want, without fear of consequence or being in a marriage that may be undesirable.

If I was a teenager in today's society, I would be promiscuous to. I can't be held accountable. And people won't expect me to do the right thing. Either abstain, get married, have a meaningful relationship with an exclusive person, a spiritual relationship with a higher power, or public ridicule. These concepts work for me, because they at the very least get people to think twice about engaging in frivilous and unprotected sex.

Though the number of unwed births has risen, the overall number of teen births has fallen dramatically since the 1960's. (its about 1/2 of what it was in 1960). Except for a slight increase in the mid 80's it has dropped steadily in the last 40 years.

You're right in saying that in the past, if you got pregnant, you got married. But some have come to realize that automatic marriage is not the best option. People saw that the only option was marriage, and were essentially forced into a marriage they neither wanted nor could handle. This often leads to resentment among the spouses, and ultimately in many cases, spousal abuse or child abuse. Of course, these things weren't really discussed much in the past, they were kept among families as a dark secret.

But what often looked like a happy, nuclear family on the surface was a pretty nasty situation. If you've ever seen a victim of child abuse, or even a child that has witnessed spousal abuse, you'll know that the scars do not heal well, and are usually life long.

Becoming pregnant IS NOT a reason to get married, IMO. There are other means of jointly raising a child, without putting 2 incompatible people under the same roof 24/7.

I think the big statistic is that teen pregnancies are dropping overall, both substantially and steadily. In fact, its dropped by nearly a third from 1990 to 2005.

[comfort80]

You are correct Vessel. Being ideal would be great, but I think the description you're giving isn't ideal. What type of school do you work/teach in? I too, teach in a public school, and last year taught in one where I had 3 middle school girls that were pregnant in the same class. And that was only ONE of my classes, and a small percentage of the school.

So yes, while it is great to teach abstinence, it is not realistic, and much more emphasis should be placed on educating rather than preaching.

i have to agree.
and i'm a parent- my daughter is 13 going on 14. she could make me a grandmother, and i'm totally not ready for that, and seeing how she is with my 1yr old, she's not ready to be a mother either. granted she hasnt had a steady bf, but most of her friends have and some have already been "deflowered"...

[comfort80]

Wasn't having kids at 13-14 the nrom 150 years ago?

Do you honestly think teenage girls weren't having kids 50 years ago? They were, they were just hidden, sent away, or had abortions in secret...they were shamed and not allowed to live thier lives normally...simply fordoing something that comes completly naturally.....

Why do you think God...in all his wisdom... made boys and girls able to create children at a young age if he didn't want it happening?
back in the day if you werent married and a mother by 16, you were considered a spinster. anyone ever read romeo and juliet, wasnt she 14 and her parents were trying to marry her off? not that i think thats right, but its the way it was...