Cle wanted Quinn at 12?

[GvilleBill]

I heard Todd McShay on Dan Patrick today. He said Cleveland started with Buffalo in the trade talks to get Quinn. Was supposedly a killer package too. If it was anything like the deal they eventually gave to get Quinn ( and it would've been SUBSTANTIALLY better considering we were 10 picks higher), would you have rather taken the deal? I know I would've. We could have fleeced Cle even worse that Det fleeced us on the Poz deal( and they did).
He also went on to say Lynch was a reach, but the only reasons he gave were character concerns. I don't give him much credit there though, if Marv is cool w/ Lynch, I got no complaints.
:bills:

[Carl J. Ironsides]

How the hell is Lynch a reach? He's going to be fantastic. And to answer your question, I would not have taken the deal. I've already fallen in love with Lynch's potential and attitude, and Poz was an amazing pick.

[GvilleBill]

I love Lynch too, have for a while. I really want to see the deal that was offered, or get confirmation if such a deal was truly offered. I would like having the picks that deal likely would have meant. 2nd and a 3rd this year, plus a 1st and 3rd next?

[admarc]

I wouldn't change a thing about the first 2 rounds.

[GvilleBill]

I wouldn't change a thing about the first 2 rounds.

You know I have mad respek for ya, but don't you think we got worked by the Lions? I was just speculating about the Cleveland rumor, but I think we got hosed for Poz. I'm happy w/ Poz, but not our LB situation. That's what really has irked me all day man...

[imontoya]

I'm guessing it was very similar to the deal Cleveland offered Green Bay that Peter King wrote about...

"Savage got a nibble from Green Bay at 16. Cleveland offered its first-round pick in 2008, and offered to flip picks with the Packers in rounds two, three and four."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/04/29/draft/index.html

So we wouldn't have a pick until 36. I wouldn't have done it. I like Lynch and Poz too much.

[emo]

if the bills had an offer near what dallas had and they didn't take it, the bills screwed themselves

[Merk]

I dont think the Bills were in a posistion to give up there first rounder this year


If they had it would send up a big signal that they had already given up on 07 and were going to build for 08


I'm happy w/ what we got

[treydawg]

I dont think the Bills were in a posistion to give up there first rounder this year


If they had it would send up a big signal that they had already given up on 07 and were going to build for 08


I'm happy w/ what we got

yep, we couldn't afford to pass on a first rounder this year. we certainly don't have the luxury.

and yes, detroit took us a bit, but we got the pick we wanted so i could care less.

[buffan100]

Moving up in 2, 3, and 4 might not have ended up being that great a deal for the #12 if Cleveland actually went out an won 8-9 games. We'd end up with the 20 pick for the 12.

If Cleveland sucks (like 4-12) I'm sure Marv will regret not taking the deal, but that sure is putting alot on Cleveland's season instead of ours.

[superman]

You know I have mad respek for ya, but don't you think we got worked by the Lions? I was just speculating about the Cleveland rumor, but I think we got hosed for Poz. I'm happy w/ Poz, but not our LB situation. That's what really has irked me all day man...

I dont get when people say this. The 2nd rder doesnt count because thats a swap. So we gave up our first 3rd. The trade between the Raiders and the cardinals for Alan Branch cost arizona a 4th rder to move up 4 spots. We had to move about 9 spots, we werent going to get by giving up a 4th. An argument can be made about trading the second 3rd, but in the end Im sure detroit had no problem staying put and picking a player so we had to make it kind of sweet for them to take a bite. When it comes down to taking Poz (a guy whose the embodiment of Bills fans) Im not going to get nit picking about which 3rd it cost. Give the first and make sure we get our guy.

[voicekiller]

I would have rather had Lynch...in my opinion and many others Lynch is a better RB than AP...Lynch was not a reach he was a steal...get over it.

[Mainejays]

I heard Todd McShay on Dan Patrick today. He said Cleveland started with Buffalo in the trade talks to get Quinn. Was supposedly a killer package too. If it was anything like the deal they eventually gave to get Quinn ( and it would've been SUBSTANTIALLY better considering we were 10 picks higher), would you have rather taken the deal? I know I would've. We could have fleeced Cle even worse that Det fleeced us on the Poz deal( and they did).
He also went on to say Lynch was a reach, but the only reasons he gave were character concerns. I don't give him much credit there though, if Marv is cool w/ Lynch, I got no complaints.
:bills:

Didn't he(Mcshay) have us taking Lynch in a couple of his mock's?

[JimKelly12203]

First things first. Todd McShay is a talking head who is fairly clueless. His record is clearly confused and conflicting. On the one hand he calls Marshawn Lynch an elite back in college football, then he turns around and says we reached for him at 12 (his arguement is that the guy was a 20ish prospect) and that he has character issues.

Whatever... He's given a pay check to say what Disney/ABC/ESPN want him to. Even if he had an opinion it's irrelevant. He gets paid to be a talking head.

As for the potential deal with Clevland...

First of all, someone inform mr. mcshay (i will no longer capitalize his name) that Green Bay would have taken Lynch at 15 if we didn't take him at 12. So, TODD... there goes our running back if we trade down. Now we take poz at 22 and still need a back. That sucks... I would have been thrilled with Poz at 12, but if you can get both poz and lynch... why not? It seems this was our plan all along. And it was a very risky/aggressive plan.

These guys don't know wtf they're talking about. Our first two selections were so good taht we were able to go value the rest of the way. CB would have been great. but if the value sucks...

His point about us taking lynch at 12 when he's a 20ish pick is nonsense. He wouldn't have gone beyond 15 and we had him highly rated. The funny thing is, this clown would have praised the pick at 15 if Green Bay took him. He's too goddamn stupid to understand that the difference between 12 and 15 at a needed position for this team is utterly irrelevant.

A 3 pick reach? An 8 pick reach? An 18 pick reach? It's all meaningless. We got the player we targeted at 12 and the other player we targeted at 12. And we did it at the expense of the 12th, 43rd and 73rd (was it 73?) pick. Settle down Todd! When you don't know wtf you're talking about it's probably best to just shut your mouth.

[twosheds]

It's not written in stone that the Packers would have taken Lynch. Just because all the mocks said so.

I don't buy that there were serious trade talks between the Bills and the Browns. The jump from #36 to #12 is too big, there would have to be a hell of a compensation. I don't doubt that Cleveland called and made an offer. I doubt that it was anywhere near something that the Bills would have accepted.

[treydawg]

I can see calling Lynch a reach. But he's only a reach in another years draft. This draft was considerably weak at running back which is why taking him where we did was far from a reach. GB was dead set on taking him as well as a few other teams.

[dmoney]

What alot of these writers fail to see is that the draft , now more than ever, is soooo much more about need, than about value. It has now become a "win now" league. I dont mean to imply that the Bills will be in position to win it all this year, but assuming this is great draft class, set a soilid foundation for the years to come.

95% of the teams dont have the
"luxuary pick" option any more....

The writers also fail to realize that there are differing opinions on prospects. Just because mcshay has Lynch at 18th lets say on his board dosen't mean the Bills had him there. Again, all about need...

And as far as saying Lynch would have been a lower draft pick in another years draft because of talent in this draft class at the RB position..... thanks for that tid-bit....if my aunt had nads, she would be my uncle....

Unless these writers really dive into the needs of a team, they are only really looking at the obvious.

[GvilleBill]

Didn't he(Mcshay) have us taking Lynch in a couple of his mock's?

Probably, he's just a talking head. His reasons for downplaying Lynch are bogus, but I'm curious what everyone thought about the trade offer.

[GvilleBill]

It's not written in stone that the Packers would have taken Lynch. Just because all the mocks said so.

I don't buy that there were serious trade talks between the Bills and the Browns. The jump from #36 to #12 is too big, there would have to be a hell of a compensation. I don't doubt that Cleveland called and made an offer. I doubt that it was anywhere near something that the Bills would have accepted.

That's my whole point. I really want to know the deal offered. Multiple picks with this front office could have set us up for the next decade. And Cleveland will suck, so next years picks will be very high.
Make no mistake, I like the shit out of Lynch and Poz, and there is no way Marv could have known that Poz would be available later, so I'm glad we got what we did. I am however VERY concerned about our LB corps. Woulda, coulda currently has me trippin'.

[emo]

I would have rather had Lynch...in my opinion and many others Lynch is a better RB than AP...Lynch was not a reach he was a steal...get over it.

one guy turns into many others?

find me rankings where lynch was the first rb

[JLB]

Deal or No Deal we got what was best for the Buffalo Bills.

Lynch and Poz were great picks screw trading that away!

[danamal85]

"Savage got a nibble from Green Bay at 16. Cleveland offered its first-round pick in 2008, and offered to flip picks with the Packers in rounds two, three and four."

That deal to me sounds to me about equal value-wise to what the cowboys got for the 23rd. I would have said no to anything remotely similar to that. To restate what has already been said we really needed a difference maker this year. I think we slightly overpaid to move up for Poz (I think it should have been the 2nd third round pick) but I am alright with it because it was a proactive move. The Bills front office saw someone they wanted and went up and got him. I really would have liked David Harris and we wouldn't have had to trade up to get him. That or Ryan Kalil to solidy our line (even more). Then selected Wade or Mike Walker in tthe 3rd. Hopefully Poz plays up to the value of the pick gave up for him (I am pretty optimistic that he will).

[GvilleBill]

one guy turns into many others?

find me rankings where lynch was the first rb

He can't, b/c there were none. Let me state again that I love Lynch and Poz, but I was under the impression that we would be going RBBC, so I came to grips with not drafting Lynch 2 months ago. Our LB scare me, b/c I think that Crow would be better at WLB than the middle. I don't think Ellison deserves to start in the NFL. Awesome depth to have, but that is the extent of it. Frankly, I have concerns about Poz at the SAM LB position. That is why the draft perplexed me so.
Crow== Harris/Durant/Poz== Poz/Durant trumps Ellison==Crow==Poz pretty clearly if you ask me. Course no one asked, but I'm tellin ya anyway!
I've been cool with A-Train, draft pick, maybe Chris Brown being our commitee for a while now.
Let's not even get into the underlying tone of this class being weaker than next years. If we had those CLE picks, of which we would have had many( and high ones too boot), we could have easily made the move back for Poz and still had room to play.
Anyone that thinks our LB is set, please pass that shit cause I would love a swat of whatever you're smoking...

[GvilleBill]

The sad part is that if we had just picked up Siler instead of Who? You? I probably would have been fine with it. He will ball in SD, with the worlds largest chip on his shoulder. I can totally see Siler going into Marv's office and doing it "Wild Thing" Vaughn style, " everytime I play you I'm gonna jam it right up your ass" type of thing. All the other picks had to made at some point. Edwards was a value pick, but IDK if we are in a position to play that card. Mark my words, there will be another QB controversy. Sure didn't miss that being gone.
Our last pick of the seventh round. Has such a late pick ever been such a lightning rod? I can be sold on any pick but that, total throw away pick. A favor for a friend or something. Total bullshit pick. Our LB core is so raw that we can take some douchebag with a troubled past and injury concerns? Should've just drafted Rory Johnson if you wanted that.
I have faith that Poz and Marshawn's play will go a long ways towards helping me forget about this, but right now it sucks.

[emo]

He can't, b/c there were none. Let me state again that I love Lynch and Poz, but I was under the impression that we would be going RBBC, so I came to grips with not drafting Lynch 2 months ago. Our LB scare me, b/c I think that Crow would be better at WLB than the middle. I don't think Ellison deserves to start in the NFL. Awesome depth to have, but that is the extent of it. Frankly, I have concerns about Poz at the SAM LB position. That is why the draft perplexed me so.
Crow== Harris/Durant/Poz== Poz/Durant trumps Ellison==Crow==Poz pretty clearly if you ask me. Course no one asked, but I'm tellin ya anyway!
I've been cool with A-Train, draft pick, maybe Chris Brown being our commitee for a while now.
Let's not even get into the underlying tone of this class being weaker than next years. If we had those CLE picks, of which we would have had many( and high ones too boot), we could have easily made the move back for Poz and still had room to play.
Anyone that thinks our LB is set, please pass that shit cause I would love a swat of whatever you're smoking...


my thinking in this is that if it had been offerred with some sort of say first next year adn switching of picks in rounds 3 and four and the bills didn't take it it was an enormous mistake. Lynch could be great, and he might not be. he is not better than irons, henry, or leonard plus a top 5 pick next year. and that is the math that needs to be done.

here is something to consider, the bills didn't want to pay two first round salaries next year, especially a top 10 salary

[GvilleBill]

my thinking in this is that if it had been offerred with some sort of say first next year adn switching of picks in rounds 3 and four and the bills didn't take it it was an enormous mistake. Lynch could be great, and he might not be. he is not better than irons, henry, or leonard plus a top 5 pick next year. and that is the math that needs to be done.

here is something to consider, the bills didn't want to pay two first round salaries next year, especially a top 10 salary

Nice point Emo. God, I ****ing hate it when frugality gets in the way of ballers coming to town. But it is the nature of the business.

[Buffal0B1LLs_fan]

Marv said they did not receive any offers to trade down. Only one to trade up, and it was too expensive.
And if the only thing Todd McShay can say about Lynch being a reach is the character concerns, then I'd consider him a tool and dismiss anything he had to say.

[imontoya]

my thinking in this is that if it had been offerred with some sort of say first next year adn switching of picks in rounds 3 and four and the bills didn't take it it was an enormous mistake. Lynch could be great, and he might not be. he is not better than irons, henry, or leonard plus a top 5 pick next year. and that is the math that needs to be done.

here is something to consider, the bills didn't want to pay two first round salaries next year, especially a top 10 salary

I bet Dallas thought they were getting a Top 10 pick in 2005 when they made the trade that got us Losman.

The Bills found a talented RB who fit the system this year. Why wait for what could be there next year or take a guy your not as a high on in the 2nd? (kinda sounds like the mistake dallas made, Stephen Jackson v. Julius Jones)

I bet salaries did factor into it though. The Bills would rather pick 25-32 than 1-15. Lynch gets us closer to that than waiting till 2008.

[emo]

I bet Dallas thought they were getting a Top 10 pick in 2005 when they made the trade that got us Losman.

The Bills found a talented RB who fit the system this year. Why wait for what could be there next year or take a guy your not as a high on in the 2nd? (kinda sounds like the mistake dallas made, Stephen Jackson v. Julius Jones)

I bet salaries did factor into it though. The Bills would rather pick 25-32 than 1-15. Lynch gets us closer to that than waiting till 2008.

there is a distinct difference between the dallas bills tgrade and this one

they are more than likely going to start quinn they will start thomas adn they have jamal lewis as their running game.

the defense is a joke. they will be one of the worst teams in pro football next year. it is about as safe a bet as there is.

AS to whyt not get exactly your guy? because next draft is stocked with awesome running backs and as gville says if you're going to a committee approach it doens't make as much sense spending a high first on a guy especially a guy who has character issues, and a possible bad back.

Finally next year's draft is going to be stocked with top flight talent and I'd rather have two picks next year than one pick this year.

if you get 36 keep 43, you can keep your early third and maybe get cleveland to switch your third with balt's you could have really made out. still gotten poz gotten an excellent second tier running back that would be more of stop gap, running backs are a dime a dozen u8nless you have an lj, or an lt. next year there is an lt type back in mcfadden two firsts more than likely gets you that guy.

[GvilleBill]

there is a distinct difference between the dallas bills tgrade and this one

they are more than likely going to start quinn they will start thomas adn they have jamal lewis as their running game.

the defense is a joke. they will be one of the worst teams in pro football next year. it is about as safe a bet as there is.

AS to whyt not get exactly your guy? because next draft is stocked with awesome running backs and as gville says if you're going to a committee approach it doens't make as much sense spending a high first on a guy especially a guy who has character issues, and a possible bad back.

Finally next year's draft is going to be stocked with top flight talent and I'd rather have two picks next year than one pick this year.

if you get 36 keep 43, you can keep your early third and maybe get cleveland to switch your third with balt's you could have really made out. still gotten poz gotten an excellent second tier running back that would be more of stop gap, running backs are a dime a dozen u8nless you have an lj, or an lt. next year there is an lt type back in mcfadden two firsts more than likely gets you that guy.

Ain't that the truth. The flexibility we would've had cannot be discounted.

[CBennett]

My question is ...then who is lying? I would swear I heard in one of Marvs/Bills confrences on Saturday there was a question posed about if anyone called the Bills to trade..And again i thought i heard Marv say no...but someone did call about a trade UP(wanting the Bills to trade UP in the draft) but the price was way too high...so why would Marv say that he was not contacted by anyone wanting Quinn at the #12 if such a great "deal" was being offered. This was the interview/confrence around 3-4PM on Saturday or there abouts.