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View Full Version : Turns out the Lebanese Invasion last summer was a total farce...


г
April 30th, 2007, 12:40:45 PM
Olmert slammed for Lebanese invasion

Apr 30, 2007 10:14 AM
ARON HELLER
Associated Press

JERUSALEM – A government commission that probed Israel's summer war against Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon accused Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Monday of "severe failure," saying he hastily led the country into the conflict without a comprehensive plan.

A copy of the report obtained by the Associated Press cited a "severe failure in the lack of judgment, responsibility and caution."

Olmert, after receiving a copy of the panel's findings, said that "failures will be remedied."

The report was being officially released later Monday.

Olmert already faced strident calls for his resignation from coalition partners as well as opponents, and the harsh report further weakened his hold on power.

Olmert and his defence minister, Amir Peretz, who took office with limited security experience less than two months before the war, already had lost much of their public support because of the conflict, launched when Hezbollah guerrillas captured two soldiers and killed three others in a cross-border raid on July 12.

Relying heavily on massive air strikes recommended by the military chief, Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, Olmert pledged to his people that Israel would crush Hezbollah and force return of the captured soldiers. Neither goal was accomplished, and Halutz already has resigned.

Hezbollah pounded northern Israel with nearly 4,000 rockets, halting only when the U.N. Security Council imposed a cease-fire, its short-range rocket capacity intact. Israel launched a late, costly ground offensive with the Security Council nearing completion of its cease-fire resolution.

In 34 days of fighting, between 1,035 and 1,191 Lebanese civilians and combatants were killed, as were 119 Israeli soldiers and 39 civilians.

The report covers the first six days of the war, when Israel battered Lebanon with massive air strikes as Hezbollah pounded Israel with rockets. Also, the report looks at developments during the six years that followed Israel's overnight pullout from southern Lebanon in 2000 – tracing the Hezbollah buildup across from the Israeli border.

According to TV reports confirmed by Israeli officials, the commission appointed by Olmert and chaired by a retired judge, Eliyahu Winograd, aims withering criticism at Olmert and Peretz over their decision-making, inexperience and failure to question plans presented by the military.

The report also says that Halutz, a former air force commander, did not provide political leaders with a sufficient range of military options, played down the rocket threat and silenced dissenting opinions within the army command, Israeli media said.

The Winograd panel does not have the authority to fire officials, but the scathing report could ignite public protests and demonstrations, coupled with political infighting, that could force the resignation of Olmert and Peretz. Noisy public demonstrations were expected to back demands that they step down.

Already Sunday, a demand their for resignations came from Labor Party lawmaker Ofir Pines-Paz, who is challenging Peretz for party leadership in a May primary election.

"They should follow the example of Halutz, who did not wait for the Winograd commission to show him the door," he said.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/208815

ticatfan3
April 30th, 2007, 12:41:50 PM
Good idea, just planned wrong.

г
April 30th, 2007, 12:42:27 PM
Why was it a 'good idea' ?

ticatfan3
April 30th, 2007, 12:45:34 PM
They called it self defence.

г
April 30th, 2007, 12:49:46 PM
Then they realized they had their heads up their asses...

nehemiah
April 30th, 2007, 3:55:25 PM
hastily led the country into the conflict without a comprehensive plan.


welcome to the club.

uppy
April 30th, 2007, 6:55:44 PM
Has Hezbollah released the kidnapped soldiers yet ?

Green Lantern
April 30th, 2007, 6:58:38 PM
Has Hezbollah released the kidnapped soldiers yet ?

Don't think so. Israel went through all that for nothing, huh?

uppy
April 30th, 2007, 7:00:55 PM
I would seem so..perhaps they should go back with a better plan

JLB
April 30th, 2007, 7:06:30 PM
Do a carpet bombing and sort it all out later.:D

Green Lantern
April 30th, 2007, 7:07:10 PM
I would seem so..perhaps they should go back with a better plan

Maybe their plan was to go and fight. Maybe they succeeded.

uppy
April 30th, 2007, 7:11:37 PM
Maybe their plan was to go and fight. Maybe they succeeded.

The IDF went in with one hand tyed behind there backs..just like us in IRAQ

the last few years.

JLB
April 30th, 2007, 7:12:53 PM
The IDF went in with one hand tyed behind there backs..just like us in IRAQ

the last few years.

Well said spot on Tom.

Green Lantern
April 30th, 2007, 7:20:11 PM
The IDF went in with one hand tyed behind there backs..just like us in IRAQ

the last few years.

No doubt.

I've heard tell that the US is the one keeping them from going full-bore because we don't want them to spark off the powder keg over there.

uppy
April 30th, 2007, 7:31:47 PM
No doubt.

I've heard tell that the US is the one keeping them from going full-bore because we don't want them to spark off the powder keg over there.

It may be time for that powder keg to go off, lets get it over once and for all

armageddon here we come !

Green Lantern
April 30th, 2007, 7:35:28 PM
It may be time for that powder keg to go off, lets get it over once and for all

armageddon here we come !

War happens sometimes when people get too tired of the stress and tension of near-war. When enough people agree with you, it will happen.

deconstruction
April 30th, 2007, 8:38:06 PM
I would seem so..perhaps they should go back with a better plan

They can't. They blew their opportunity.

Besides, its a stupid idea.

deconstruction
April 30th, 2007, 8:38:53 PM
The IDF went in with one hand tyed behind there backs..just like us in IRAQ

the last few years.

You mean when Rumsfeld denied the generals their full troop requests?

Green Lantern
April 30th, 2007, 8:40:28 PM
You mean when Rumsfeld denied the generals their full troop requests?

Ouch.

Meathead
April 30th, 2007, 11:08:26 PM
the offensive failed for two and a half reasons

1) the israelis didnt either plan for or prepare for the level of civilian casualties they inflicted. many of the alleged civilians are what i call 'passive terrorists' in that they allow themselves to be killed to help the extremists. however we have not yet learned how to counter that strategy without losing international support

1.5) israel used these cluster munitions to attack the hit-and-run insurgents firing rockets. the good news is that those munitions are very effective at hitting dangerous moving targets. the bad news is that they are made up of hundreds of 'bomblets' that are supposed to explode on contact but dont always and leave about ten percent behind to blow up at random. so not only did they kill civilians around extremists firing rockets they also were the gift that kept killing and killing for months afterwards

2) israelis didnt committ their own ground forces early or aggressive enough. they rightfully feared going into fortified hezbollah territory and suffering significant troop losses - which almost certainly have triggered resistance from the isreali public who wouldnt support that for long. so they proceeded with the ultra-destructive air/cluster campaign until after the international community had started comdeming their civilian slaughter. by the time they started the ground campaign they were close to being forced to end it. if they had started the ground war a few weeks earlier they would have lost more soldiers but they would have torn out a lot more of the hezbollah network

so i would agree - good idea done poorly

lets put it this way - it was a lot more valid a strategy for israel than going into iraq was for the us and everybody else

JLB
April 30th, 2007, 11:23:04 PM
You mean when Rumsfeld denied the generals their full troop requests?

Why there's always a reason?
Gotta link with the full story?

TheGoodShepherd
May 1st, 2007, 12:17:04 AM
The IDF went in with one hand tyed behind there backs..just like us in IRAQ

the last few years.

No they didn't, they went full speed and it blew up in their face...LOL

No wonder you were never in combat and basically served as a glorified gas station attendant servicing humvees and the sorts.

Tactics was just never your thing.

Thank God the Army recognized your "talents" and never made you an officer.

They realized - probably quicker than anyone- that soldiers wouldn't follow you to a fountain of water.

Think of how many lives they saved by not putting you in a command position.

LOL

TheGoodShepherd
May 1st, 2007, 12:21:58 AM
the offensive failed for two and a half reasons

1) the israelis didnt either plan for or prepare for the level of civilian casualties they inflicted. many of the alleged civilians are what i call 'passive terrorists' in that they allow themselves to be killed to help the extremists. however we have not yet learned how to counter that strategy without losing international support

1.5) israel used these cluster munitions to attack the hit-and-run insurgents firing rockets. the good news is that those munitions are very effective at hitting dangerous moving targets. the bad news is that they are made up of hundreds of 'bomblets' that are supposed to explode on contact but dont always and leave about ten percent behind to blow up at random. so not only did they kill civilians around extremists firing rockets they also were the gift that kept killing and killing for months afterwards

2) israelis didnt committ their own ground forces early or aggressive enough. they rightfully feared going into fortified hezbollah territory and suffering significant troop losses - which almost certainly have triggered resistance from the isreali public who wouldnt support that for long. so they proceeded with the ultra-destructive air/cluster campaign until after the international community had started comdeming their civilian slaughter. by the time they started the ground campaign they were close to being forced to end it. if they had started the ground war a few weeks earlier they would have lost more soldiers but they would have torn out a lot more of the hezbollah network

so i would agree - good idea done poorly

lets put it this way - it was a lot more valid a strategy for israel than going into iraq was for the us and everybody else


Another stupid analysis devoid of any facts and supplemented only with myths regarding the fairy tale and superiority of an Israeli army that just didn't "try."

pmoon6
May 1st, 2007, 9:50:05 AM
No they didn't, they went full speed and it blew up in their face...LOL

No wonder you were never in combat and basically served as a glorified gas station attendant servicing humvees and the sorts.

Tactics was just never your thing.

Thank God the Army recognized your "talents" and never made you an officer.

They realized - probably quicker than anyone- that soldiers wouldn't follow you to a fountain of water.

Think of how many lives they saved by not putting you in a command position.

LOLSo says the great leader of men.

SpikedLemonade
May 1st, 2007, 10:03:20 AM
Then they realized they had their heads up their asses...


Well, you know my position on this crap.

SpikedLemonade
May 1st, 2007, 10:04:16 AM
Has Hezbollah released the kidnapped soldiers yet ?


You're NOT that thick.

You know that was only a pretext for the slaughter.

shiva2999
May 1st, 2007, 10:10:30 AM
No they didn't, they went full speed and it blew up in their face...LOL

No wonder you were never in combat and basically served as a glorified gas station attendant servicing humvees and the sorts.

Tactics was just never your thing.

Thank God the Army recognized your "talents" and never made you an officer.

They realized - probably quicker than anyone- that soldiers wouldn't follow you to a fountain of water.

Think of how many lives they saved by not putting you in a command position.

LOL

:rofl:

So true.

shiva2999
May 1st, 2007, 10:12:54 AM
so i would agree - good idea done poorly


Botched in other words?

:rofl:

This seems to be a theme with you.