Government And Universities Want To Redo The Internet

[35Pete]

I think that the universities want to technically enhance it not that technology is much more mature than the TCP/IP protocol (and FTP, SSL, UDP, ect...) than 15-20 years ago.

But here's the problem. Governments really exist for power, money, and control. Ohh, they'll toss bones to "the people" to placate them. Especially when those bones they toss bring more power.

Now they want their hooks on the internet.

The internet is something that EVERYONE built. It is the last great freedom remaining. And the bastards want that too.

The one lefty that I agree with on a major issue is Richard Stallman of the Free Software Foundation. Richard believe that when you buy software that you OWN the software, have every right to know how it works, and what it does. He does not advocate "free" as in no-cost. No...Read this. ( I agree that we have a right to see and modify the source code. I don't agree with a lot of the other stuff).

I think the guy is gonna flip over this idea.


The Free Software DefinitionWe maintain this free software definition to show clearly what must be true about a particular software program for it to be considered free software.

Free software is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer.

Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:

The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
A program is free software if users have all of these freedoms. Thus, you should be free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution, to anyone anywhere. Being free to do these things means (among other things) that you do not have to ask or pay for permission.

You should also have the freedom to make modifications and use them privately in your own work or play, without even mentioning that they exist. If you do publish your changes, you should not be required to notify anyone in particular, or in any particular way.

The freedom to run the program means the freedom for any kind of person or organization to use it on any kind of computer system, for any kind of overall job and purpose, without being required to communicate about it with the developer or any other specific entity. In this freedom, it is the user's purpose that matters, not the developer's purpose; you as a user are free to run a program for your purposes, and if you distribute it to someone else, she is then free to run it for her purposes, but you are not entitled to impose your purposes on her.

The freedom to redistribute copies must include binary or executable forms of the program, as well as source code, for both modified and unmodified versions. (Distributing programs in runnable form is necessary for conveniently installable free operating systems.) It is ok if there is no way to produce a binary or executable form for a certain program (since some languages don't support that feature), but you must have the freedom to redistribute such forms should you find or develop a way to make them.

In order for the freedoms to make changes, and to publish improved versions, to be meaningful, you must have access to the source code of the program. Therefore, accessibility of source code is a necessary condition for free software.

One important way to modify a program is by merging in available free subroutines and modules. If the program's license says that you cannot merge in an existing module, such as if it requires you to be the copyright holder of any code you add, then the license is too restrictive to qualify as free.

In order for these freedoms to be real, they must be irrevocable as long as you do nothing wrong; if the developer of the software has the power to revoke the license, without your doing anything to give cause, the software is not free.

However, certain kinds of rules about the manner of distributing free software are acceptable, when they don't conflict with the central freedoms. For example, copyleft (very simply stated) is the rule that when redistributing the program, you cannot add restrictions to deny other people the central freedoms. This rule does not conflict with the central freedoms; rather it protects them.

You may have paid money to get copies of free software, or you may have obtained copies at no charge. But regardless of how you got your copies, you always have the freedom to copy and change the software, even to sell copies.

http://www.gnu.org/

[35Pete]

SAY NO TO GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE IN THE INTERNET!!!!

Ohh, here is the article that spurred this thread:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266124,00.html

[Woody]

http://boortz.com/images/funny/get_off_my_internet.jpg

[HURLS]

Woddy beat me to it, but Pete, I thought Gal Ore created the internet??

[35Pete]

Perhaps one of the absolute dumbest things done around here is that some of the Range Democrats insistently defend the claim that Al Gore created the internet.

How stupid can you be? Really? I'll bet that Algore doesn't even know what TCP/IP stands for. He's not a systems engineer, he's not a programmer.

Perhaps he thought of the idea? OK. So what??? People thought of flying decades before Kitty Hawk and the Wright Brothers. Do they have claim to having created flight? And only he thought of the idea? Come on...Quit acting like a fool.

Gimme a break. These people are incredibly stupid or just flat out lying to push the party line.

FDR created the atomic bomb? Really?

[Green Lantern]

The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3).


Don't agree with those. These programs are someone's intellectual property. I don't think anyone who buys it has a right to copy it and hand it out free or alter and hand that out without paying a commission to the creator.

[Gibby]

Perhaps one of the absolute dumbest things done around here is that some of the Range Democrats insistently defend the claim that Al Gore created the internet.


Pete you are full of shit today, how dare you attack the most brilliant man in America, not only did he invent the internet he also has a plan that will successfully end global warming even if man had nothing to do with starting it.

[35Pete]

The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3).


Don't agree with those. These programs are someone's intellectual property. I don't think anyone who buys it has a right to copy it and hand it out free or alter and hand that out without paying a commission to the creator.

Those are the one's that I disagree with too.

But I do think that YOU completely own the copy that you bought and that you have a right to the source code so that you can modify it or hire an expert to do it for you.

Just like souping up a stock automobile. No difference.

[TheGoodShepherd]

Perhaps one of the absolute dumbest things done around here is that some of the Range Democrats insistently defend the claim that Al Gore created the internet.

How stupid can you be? Really? I'll bet that Algore doesn't even know what TCP/IP stands for. He's not a systems engineer, he's not a programmer.

Perhaps he thought of the idea? OK. So what??? People thought of flying decades before Kitty Hawk and the Wright Brothers. Do they have claim to having created flight? And only he thought of the idea? Come on...Quit acting like a fool.

Gimme a break. These people are incredibly stupid or just flat out lying to push the party line.

FDR created the atomic bomb? Really?

Oh yea?

Like who...got any names and links of them saying so?

Or is this just another lie?

[35Pete]

Oh yea?

Like who...got any names and links of them saying so?

Or is this just another lie?

OK. So then you admit that he didn't create the internet then, correct?

[TheGoodShepherd]

OK. So then you admit that he didn't create the internet then, correct?


You made the charge in your post, not me I couldnt care less who invented it....got any names or links...I want to know if your purposefully lying or not.

Where are these "Range Democrats" who "insistently" claim Gore colely created the internet?

Again, got links or got lies?

[JoeMama]

Perhaps one of the absolute dumbest things done around here is that some of the Range Democrats insistently defend the claim that Al Gore created the internet.

I thought it was the other way around.

I thought Dems opposed the notion that Gore ever claimed to "create" the internet in the first place - calling it a myth of the right.

Gore said he took legislative initiative in creating the internet. As in, he submitted and supported bills that funded the creation of the internet. I don't see anything wrong with that.

After all, that's a lot different than the right-wing attacks that make it seem like he personally sat in his mom's basement and created the internet all by himself.

Here's a good review of Al Gore and the entire internet issue.

http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/

[Green Lantern]

I thought it was the other way around.

I thought Dems opposed the notion that Gore ever claimed to "create" the internet in the first place - calling it a myth of the right.

Gore said he took legislative initiative in creating the internet. As in, he submitted and supported bills that funded the creation of the internet. I don't see anything wrong with that.

After all, that's a lot different than the right-wing attacks that make it seem like he personally sat in his mom's basement and created the internet all by himself.

Here's a good review of Al Gore and the entire internet issue.

http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/

So then...

...Pete is a Righty?

I have to rethink my worldview.

[35Pete]

I thought it was the other way around.

I thought Dems opposed the notion that Gore ever claimed to "create" the internet in the first place - calling it a myth of the right.

Gore said he took legislative initiative in creating the internet. As in, he submitted and supported bills that funded the creation of the internet. I don't see anything wrong with that.

After all, that's a lot different than the right-wing attacks that make it seem like he personally sat in his mom's basement and created the internet all by himself.

Here's a good review of Al Gore and the entire internet issue.

http://www.firstmonday.org/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/

No. Where the thing got "spun" was when the reps changed the word "created" to "invented".

Gore DID say during a CNN interview with Wolf Blitzer that he "created" the internet.

Subtle but potent difference.

He didn't create the internet. It was created in the 60's and 70's by DARPA and several major universities.

He's flat out taking credit for something that he shouldn't have.

And the reps lied about what he actually said to embarrass him. Too bad. They could have ridiculed him for what he actually said.

[Green Lantern]

I thought the internet started so White Sands, Sandia and Trinity scientists could communicate.

[35Pete]

I thought the internet started so White Sands, Sandia and Trinity scientists could communicate.

DARPA = Defense Advanced Projects Research Agency

Yes. White Sands, Sandia, et. al... were involved.


Here's the irony. Universities and a gov't agency launched this 30+ years ago. Ordinary people made it amazing, and now they want to come in and redesign it.

Problem. I don't trust them. One big concern mentioned in the article is that the gov't is adamant about improving it's snooping abilities on the internet.

Easy as pie if you redesign it. Know what I mean?

[JoeMama]

No. Where the thing got "spun" was when the reps changed the word "created" to "invented".

Gore DID say during a CNN interview with Wolf Blitzer that he "created" the internet.

Subtle but potent difference.



In his own words...

Gore: I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

I think it's fairly straight-forward what he meant.

I guess some people take issue with his choice of words, but I don't.


He didn't create the internet. It was created in the 60's and 70's by DARPA and several major universities.

He's flat out taking credit for something that he shouldn't have.

And the reps lied about what he actually said to embarrass him. Too bad. They could have ridiculed him for what he actually said

There was no single moment of creation of the internet. It's the final result of a host of activities.

http://www.isoc.org/internet/history/brief.shtml

Al Gore was behind some of the legislative initiatives that furthered its development.

So he takes some of the credit for the internet. That's what politicians do.

[35Pete]

In his own words...

Gore: I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

I think it's fairly straight-forward what he meant.

I guess some people take issue with his choice of words, but I don't.



There was no single moment of creation of the internet. It's the final result of a host of activities.

http://www.isoc.org/internet/history/brief.shtml

Al Gore was behind some of the legislative initiatives that furthered its development.

So he takes some of the credit for the internet. That's what politicians do.

I don't think it's straight forward at all.

Look at this sentance:

I took the initiative in taking out the garbage this morning.
I took the initiative in creating the internet.

If what you are trying to infer is true then the sentance structure would have been like this:

I took the initiative in having the garbage taken out this morning.
I tool the initiative in having the internet created.

Pretty black and white, don't ya think?

[sukie]

He never said furthering it's development... you assumed what he meant... and it didn't happen the six years he referred to... I assume he had a hand in AOL's past dominance as well.

[JoeMama]

I don't think it's straight forward at all.

Look at this sentance:

I took the initiative in taking out the garbage this morning.
I took the initiative in creating the internet.

If what you are trying to infer is true then the sentance structure would have been like this:

I took the initiative in having the garbage taken out this morning.
I tool the initiative in having the internet created.

Pretty black and white, don't ya think?

He was speaking extemporaneously.

It seems superfluous to over-analyze sentence structure.

He qualified his statement with "I took the initiative in" creating the internet.

If he meant what the right is claiming, he would have just said point blank "I created the internet."

[sukie]

He didn't even take initiative... none I ever saw.

[35Pete]

He was speaking extemporaneously.

It seems superfluous to over-analyze sentence structure.

He qualified his statement with "I took the initiative in" creating the internet.

If he meant what the right is claiming, he would have just said point blank "I created the internet."

Splitting hairs here Joe.

Almost like "Depends on what the meaning of "is" is...

[35Pete]

In any event Joe, Algore is typical. A politician taking credit for something he shouldn't be taking credit for.

[JoeMama]

You can see some of his contributions to the development of the internet in some of the links I provided.

Or you can just google it.

I don't think it's cynical of Gore to assume a certain degree of credit.

The internet isn't a homogenuous entity.

A litany of people can assume credit if they choose.

[35Pete]

You can see some of his contributions to the development of the internet in some of the links I provided.

Or you can just google it.

I don't think it's cynical of Gore to assume a certain degree of credit.

The internet isn't a homogenuous entity.

A litany of people can assume credit if they choose.

There are thousands of RFC's on the internet. Google them. Those people created the internet.

Gore's lying. But he's a politician so what'd you expect?

[TheGoodShepherd]

There are thousands of RFC's on the internet. Google them. Those people created the internet.

Gore's lying. But he's a politician so what'd you expect?

You've had close to two hours now to produce the names and links pete.

Where are these "Range Democrats" who "insistently" claim Gore colely created the internet?

Again, got links or got lies?

[35Pete]

You've had close to two hours now to produce the names and links pete.

Where are these "Range Democrats" who "insistently" claim Gore colely created the internet?

Again, got links or got lies?

Hmm. Have you been reading this thread?

[sukie]

He already posted about Gore's comments... i called for his so called involvement in the intrnet's creation first... Get in line

[35Pete]

You can see some of his contributions to the development of the internet in some of the links I provided.

Or you can just google it.

I don't think it's cynical of Gore to assume a certain degree of credit.

The internet isn't a homogenuous entity.

A litany of people can assume credit if they choose.

He didn't create the internet. I don't know why you are so insistent in defending him on this. He's a politician. He lied and said something stupid.

Look at this page. There are more pages than this. THESE people created the internet.

http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc-index2.html

[35Pete]

You've had close to two hours now to produce the names and links pete.

Where are these "Range Democrats" who "insistently" claim Gore colely created the internet?

Again, got links or got lies?

Responding to any challenge from you might give the impression that I am awarding you even the most remote smidgeon of respect.

We certainly don't want to propagate that false impression.

Nevertheless. Your challenge has been answered without me ever having to address it.

[JoeMama]

Pete, you're full of shit if you're implying that I think Gore created the Internet.

I've dedicated most of this thread to explaining why I think the claim that "Al Gore created the internet" is bogus.

So don't turn it around on me.

My whole point has been, I think it's inaccurate to deny that Gore has been an advocate of the Internet most of his career.

He was mentioned by "Computer: A History of the Information Machine" as a person who helped mainstream the Internet since the 1970's.

He pushed the Gore Bill in the 1980's.

Which was later passed as the High Performance Computing and Communication Act of 1991.

Keep in mind that bill led to NII - Nation Information Infrastructure.

His contributions may be exaggerated. I don't doubt that.

But it's not like the guy had no role in the development of the Internet like you're asserting.

[Mouldsie]

:rofl:

[35Pete]

Pete, you're full of shit if you're implying that I think Gore created the Internet.

I've dedicated most of this thread to explaining why I think the claim that "Al Gore created the internet" is bogus.

So don't turn it around on me.

My whole point has been, I think it's inaccurate to deny that Gore has been an advocate of the Internet most of his career.

He was mentioned by "Computer: A History of the Information Machine" as a person who helped mainstream the Internet since the 1970's.

He pushed the Gore Bill in the 1980's.

Which was later passed as the High Performance Computing and Communication Act of 1991.

Keep in mind that bill led to NII - Nation Information Infrastructure.

His contributions may be exaggerated. I don't doubt that.

But it's not like the guy had no role in the development of the Internet like you're asserting.

I never said that he had no role. But his words are his words. And he is a liar.

Since he lied about the internet, why should anyone believe him about anything else?

[TheGoodShepherd]

Hmm. Have you been reading this thread?

Yes, I have been. And no one has yet to claim Gore created the internet.

So where are the links and names you freakin liar?

You've had three hours to come up with evidence that some "Range democrats" claimed Al Gore solely created the internet.

Where the hell is your proof of this silly charge?

Again, are you going to back it up or are you going to keep lying?

Where are the names and where are the links pinnochio?

[TheGoodShepherd]

:rofl:

His behaviour in this thread is about as silly as every other time 35pinnochio tried to show us how big his brain is.

LOL...he's like the Range's very own Bill O'Reily( but not nearly as entertaining).

His sordid past even includes an attempt to silence me and shiva by lying and saying we were the same person as a pret text to get us both banned!

But then again, realize who 35pinnochio is....a poster who tried using Steven Milloy ( a paid tobacco advocate who doesnt think smoking causes cancer) as an authority on climate science!!

hahahahaha

[35Pete]

His behaviour in this thread is about as silly as every other time 35pinnochio tried to show us how big his brain is.

LOL...he's like the Range's very own Bill O'Reily( but not nearly as entertaining).

His sordid past even includes an attempt to silence me and shiva by lying and saying we were the same person as a pret text to get us both banned!

I'm not your monkey you little snot. So :stfu:

300+ groans? Do you know why you are considered one of the worst posters here? Because you add nothing.

Why would I want to engage you?

[K-Gun]

lol, that last groan was for effect.

[TheGoodShepherd]

I'm not your monkey you little snot. So :stfu:

300+ groans? Do you know why you are considered one of the worst posters here? Because you add nothing.

Why would I want to engage you?

LOL...like groans even matter you clown....

HAHAHA.....OMG I can't believe you just resorted to internet praise...lol

Next thing you know, pete will be telling us about the praise he recieved from peeps on his MSN or yahoo lists

HAHAHAAHAHA

Sorry but the reason you come across as stupid, is because you go around quoting stupid people like Steven Milloy...LOL

[TheGoodShepherd]

I'm not your monkey you little snot. So :stfu:

300+ groans? Do you know why you are considered one of the worst posters here? Because you add nothing.

Why would I want to engage you?

You've engaged me plenty times before, and you don't anymore because you come across as totally stupid each and every time.



But back to the topic ok, pinnochio....

Where are the links and names?

You've had three hours to come up with evidence that some "Range democrats" claimed Al Gore solely created the internet.

Where the hell is your proof of this silly charge?

Again, are you going to back it up or are you going to keep lying?

Where are the names and where are the links pinnochio?

[TheGoodShepherd]

C'mon 35pete, what are you waiting for?!

You've had three hours to come up with evidence that some "Range democrats" claimed Al Gore solely created the internet.

Where are the links and names?

Where the hell is your proof of this silly charge?

WHERE ARE THE LINKS AND NAMES??

[TheGoodShepherd]

PETE, WHERE ARE YOU.....WHERE ARE THE LINKS AND NAMES PETE???

Pete responds...."If I known I would have had to prove it, I never would have said it."


http://polnotes.typepad.com/windfarmblog/images/pinocchio.gif

[35Pete]

JK. Chimp's on ignore. I know what this would turn into. A 12 page badger session like it always does. I'll PM you threads related to this. But I am done with the punk. He serves no useful purpose here. None, nada. Even the people that I disagree with the most I often have beneficial exchanges with. Chimp? He exists to crawl under people's skin. I won't be part of that.

[TheGoodShepherd]

JK. Chimp's on ignore. I know what this would turn into. A 12 page badger session like it always does. I'll PM you threads related to this. But I am done with the punk. He serves no useful purpose here. None, nada. Even the people that I disagree with the most I often have beneficial exchanges with. Chimp? He exists to crawl under people's skin. I won't be part of that.

HAHAHAHA


What a freakin tool.....He CANT COME UP WITH ANY NAMES of these so called "Range democrats" that he claimed they said Gore invented the internet...so he picks up his ball and goes home...

LOL

WHAT A TOOL

[shiva2999]

Pete's full of crap.

Everyone knows it.