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View Full Version : This nutcup is our attorney general


JoeMama
January 27th, 2007, 12:16:50 PM
Gonzales Questions Habeas Corpus

In one of the most chilling public statements ever made by a U.S. Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales questioned whether the U.S. Constitution grants habeas corpus rights of a fair trial to every American.

Responding to questions from Sen. Arlen Specter at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Jan. 18, Gonzales argued that the Constitution doesn’t explicitly bestow habeas corpus rights; it merely says when the so-called Great Writ can be suspended.

“There is no expressed grant of habeas in the Constitution; there’s a prohibition against taking it away,” Gonzales said.

Gonzales’s remark left Specter, the committee’s ranking Republican, stammering.

“Wait a minute,” Specter interjected. “The Constitution says you can’t take it away except in case of rebellion or invasion. Doesn’t that mean you have the right of habeas corpus unless there’s a rebellion or invasion?”

Gonzales continued, “The Constitution doesn’t say every individual in the United States or citizen is hereby granted or assured the right of habeas corpus. It doesn’t say that. It simply says the right shall not be suspended except in cases of rebellion or invasion.”

“You may be treading on your interdiction of violating common sense,” Specter said.

While Gonzales’s statement has a measure of quibbling precision to it, his logic is troubling because it would suggest that many other fundamental rights that Americans hold dear also don’t exist because the Constitution often spells out those rights in the negative.

For instance, the First Amendment declares that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Applying Gonzales’s reasoning, one could argue that the First Amendment doesn’t explicitly say Americans have the right to worship as they choose, speak as they wish or assemble peacefully. The amendment simply bars the government, i.e. Congress, from passing laws that would impinge on these rights.

Similarly, Article I, Section 9, of the Constitution states that “the privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.”

The clear meaning of the clause, as interpreted for more than two centuries, is that the Founders recognized the long-established English law principle of habeas corpus, which guarantees people the right of due process, such as formal charges and a fair trial.

That Attorney General Gonzales would express such an extraordinary opinion, doubting the constitutional protection of habeas corpus, suggests either a sophomoric mind or an unwillingness to respect this well-established right, one that the Founders considered so important that they embedded it in the original text of the Constitution.

Other cherished rights – including freedom of religion and speech – were added later in the first 10 amendments, known as the Bill of Rights.

Ironically, Gonzales may be wrong in another way about the lack of specificity in the Constitution’s granting of habeas corpus rights. Many of the legal features attributed to habeas corpus are delineated in a positive way in the Sixth Amendment, which reads:

“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed … and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; [and] to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses.”

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/011907Parry.shtml

John Ashcroft's Hispanic doppleganger.

sukie
January 27th, 2007, 12:41:01 PM
Kinda like the loose interpretation used for ome's own gain surrounding "General Welfare" isn't it.

JoeMama
January 27th, 2007, 12:48:45 PM
Kinda like the loose interpretation surrounding "General Welfare" isn't it.

"The left does it too! See? See?"

Apologetics are sissies.

Stay on topic.

sukie
January 27th, 2007, 12:49:29 PM
That is the topic... Interpretation of the constitution.

JoeMama
January 27th, 2007, 12:53:42 PM
That is the topic... Interpretation of the constitution.

This is about Alberto Gonzales' disdain for habeus corpus, among other Constitutional rights.

Welfare programs aren't struck down as unconstititional because the formation of public policy is part of the legal process.

It's that simple.

Either way, if your defense of Gonzales is a misdirection toward welfare programs, you obviously don't have a lot to argue.

sukie
January 27th, 2007, 12:55:02 PM
Just using the left's tactic here... That is all.

JoeMama
January 27th, 2007, 12:57:35 PM
Just using the left's tactic here... That is all.

Imitation is the biggest form of flattery.

sukie
January 27th, 2007, 12:58:15 PM
I just wish I was as good as it as most lefties here.

dilbert
January 27th, 2007, 1:16:07 PM
Does anything these people do surprise you anymore Joe?

How anybody who considers themselves a conservative can defend these clowns is confusing as hell. They continue to expand the power of the government. Whether the left plays fast and loose is irrelevant. The fat is the people in charge here are continuing to find (or try to find) ways to pick apart what are supposed to be guarenteed basic rights for all of us.

JoeMama
January 27th, 2007, 1:23:49 PM
Does anything these people do surprise you anymore Joe?

How anybody who considers themselves a conservative can defend these clowns is confusing as hell. They continue to expand the power of the government. Whether the left plays fast and loose is irrelevant. The fat is the people in charge here are continuing to find (or try to find) ways to pick apart what are supposed to be guarenteed basic rights for all of us.

I'd like to say I'm surprised, but this administration's contempt for civil liberties in general is so well-documented & palpable, it's hard to be surprised by any of the dumb shit they do/say anymore.

What's more surprising is the fact that so many self-proclaimed conservatives bow to this guy & his administration. It's almost mind-blowing when you consider how patently anti-conservative this administration is.

I was watching Joe Scarborough the other night & actually agreed w/ him for once. He was explaining why he's a true conservative & Bush supporters are not.

I can appreciate that kind of stance. Especially since most talking heads on cable news are such shameless Bush apologists. Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, John Gibson, Neil Cavuto, etc.

Alberto Gonzales had big shoes to fill when John Ashcroft departed.

Nice to see he's filling in w/o missing a beat.

anEinherjer
January 27th, 2007, 1:36:56 PM
Well put, Joe.

Alberto is doing what lawyers do - trying to weasel their way around precedent to get what they want. Most lawyers argue like this, and it makes personal relationships with them exceedingly painful.

But you're right about conservative vs. the Bush admin - that, and the results of the election, and we're seeing more and more members of Congress openly flipping off the guys at the other end of Penn Ave. Good for them.

Meathead
January 27th, 2007, 1:41:35 PM
ho

lee

S H I T

the beaners gone plumb loco

somebody pin a kick me sign on his ass

Stealth01
January 27th, 2007, 3:07:18 PM
Gonzales Questions Habeas Corpus

In one of the most chilling public statements ever made by a U.S. Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales questioned whether the U.S. Constitution grants habeas corpus rights of a fair trial to every American.

Responding to questions from Sen. Arlen Specter at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Jan. 18, Gonzales argued that the Constitution doesn’t explicitly bestow habeas corpus rights; it merely says when the so-called Great Writ can be suspended.

“There is no expressed grant of habeas in the Constitution; there’s a prohibition against taking it away,” Gonzales said.

Gonzales’s remark left Specter, the committee’s ranking Republican, stammering.

“Wait a minute,” Specter interjected. “The Constitution says you can’t take it away except in case of rebellion or invasion. Doesn’t that mean you have the right of habeas corpus unless there’s a rebellion or invasion?”

Gonzales continued, “The Constitution doesn’t say every individual in the United States or citizen is hereby granted or assured the right of habeas corpus. It doesn’t say that. It simply says the right shall not be suspended except in cases of rebellion or invasion.”

“You may be treading on your interdiction of violating common sense,” Specter said.

While Gonzales’s statement has a measure of quibbling precision to it, his logic is troubling because it would suggest that many other fundamental rights that Americans hold dear also don’t exist because the Constitution often spells out those rights in the negative.

For instance, the First Amendment declares that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Applying Gonzales’s reasoning, one could argue that the First Amendment doesn’t explicitly say Americans have the right to worship as they choose, speak as they wish or assemble peacefully. The amendment simply bars the government, i.e. Congress, from passing laws that would impinge on these rights.

Similarly, Article I, Section 9, of the Constitution states that “the privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.”

The clear meaning of the clause, as interpreted for more than two centuries, is that the Founders recognized the long-established English law principle of habeas corpus, which guarantees people the right of due process, such as formal charges and a fair trial.

That Attorney General Gonzales would express such an extraordinary opinion, doubting the constitutional protection of habeas corpus, suggests either a sophomoric mind or an unwillingness to respect this well-established right, one that the Founders considered so important that they embedded it in the original text of the Constitution.

Other cherished rights – including freedom of religion and speech – were added later in the first 10 amendments, known as the Bill of Rights.

Ironically, Gonzales may be wrong in another way about the lack of specificity in the Constitution’s granting of habeas corpus rights. Many of the legal features attributed to habeas corpus are delineated in a positive way in the Sixth Amendment, which reads:

“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed … and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; [and] to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses.”

http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/011907Parry.shtml

John Ashcroft's Hispanic doppleganger.

LMAO..."nutcup"...I'll have to use that one someday! JoeMama--always good for a laugh.

Green Lantern
January 27th, 2007, 3:28:50 PM
That is the topic... Interpretation of the constitution.

Is this interpretation more or less acceptable than "general welfare", in your opinion? Or are they different stops on the continuum or abuse?

General Welfare is purposely vague to allow leeway, habeas corpus is specific, in my view.

anEinherjer
January 27th, 2007, 3:32:08 PM
Sure aqua, whatever fits your frame of reference I guess....

Green Lantern
January 27th, 2007, 3:33:12 PM
Sure aqua, whatever fits your frame of reference I guess....

You think "habeas corpus" is vague and "general welfare" is specific?

Shame on you.

Green Lantern
January 27th, 2007, 4:25:32 PM
Didn't think it would be that easy to scare off the rabble.

ckg68
January 27th, 2007, 5:04:54 PM
Well put, Joe.

Alberto is doing what lawyers do - trying to weasel their way around precedent to get what they want. Most lawyers argue like this, and it makes personal relationships with them exceedingly painful.

But you're right about conservative vs. the Bush admin - that, and the results of the election, and we're seeing more and more members of Congress openly flipping off the guys at the other end of Penn Ave. Good for them.

Agreed,aE.

If we had this discussion and attitude years before,we wouldn't be in the predicament we're in right now.

But,since we had pols on both sides of the aisle not wanting to be seen as unpatriotic(especially Democrats),they basically sat down and zipped their lips at the moment when dissent was most needed.

When rights are taken(and it's happened before...which see,the acts passed under John Adams' admin,Abraham Lincoln's and even FDR's),it's tough to get them back for some time.

Meathead
January 27th, 2007, 5:27:33 PM
lets look at the bright side

this is the team that wants to take away all due process rights from detainees, at least theyd consider giving americans some day in court. it might be a decade later but you will find out if you were imprisoned unlawfully eventually

heil

shiva2999
January 27th, 2007, 5:58:25 PM
Gonzales is just applying the Pete doctrine.

If you're really pissed off, the constitution doesn't matter.

No need to quibble about who meant what.

You know in your gut what's right.

г
January 27th, 2007, 6:04:13 PM
http://i.tvspielfilm.de/img/gen/1/8/431829_Pxgen_r_360x240.jpg

Actual, unretouched photo of Pete last night

shiva2999
January 27th, 2007, 6:07:28 PM
http://i.tvspielfilm.de/img/gen/1/8/431829_Pxgen_r_360x240.jpg

Actual, unretouched photo of Pete last night

Gee, this is the one he sent me...

http://www.prairieghosts.com/gacy.gif

gilchristfan
January 27th, 2007, 6:09:58 PM
Well put, Joe.

Alberto is doing what lawyers do - trying to weasel their way around precedent to get what they want. Most lawyers argue like this, and it makes personal relationships with them exceedingly painful.

Been married 10 years.

And yes, its been exceedingly painful for her.

But I can't help that. It was her fault for saying yes.

Green Lantern
January 27th, 2007, 7:37:19 PM
Been married 10 years.

And yes, its been exceedingly painful for her.

But I can't help that. It was her fault for saying yes.

And it is a legally-binding contract, right?